D&D General Greyhawk Humanocentricism?

[Emerikol]

I was probably a "conservative" in 1e D&D. I never liked gnomes as a playable race. I prefer humanocentric but with elves and dwarves playing their own part in their own ways. Halflings just make the cut.

 

[Pauln6]

I was probably a "conservative" in 1e D&D. I never liked gnomes as a playable race. I prefer humanocentric but with elves and dwarves playing their own part in their own ways. Halflings just make the cut.

I thought that after 4e made gnomes officially fey, I got them for the first time (even if I disapproved of their new beardless appearance). I was disappointed when they rolled that back. They have always been a lower tier PC race, usually just to play an illusionist-thief or fighter-illusionist.

 

[Zardnaar]

I was probably a "conservative" in 1e D&D. I never liked gnomes as a playable race. I prefer humanocentric but with elves and dwarves playing their own part in their own ways. Halflings just make the cut.

No one likes Gnomes.

Don't think I've ever seen one thats not an illusionist. Maybe 1 iirc?

 

[CreamCloud0]

I thought that after 4e made gnomes officially fey, I got them for the first time (even if I disapproved of their new beardless appearance). I was disappointed when they rolled that back. They have always been a lower tier PC race, usually just to play an illusionist-thief or fighter-illusionist.

i really wish they'd play up more the idea of gnomes being fey nature spirits, it could help differentiate them from halflings too, i think the tinker aspect could be worth more if removed from them and given to another species(personally i'd give it to goblins instead to try help shift them out the feral cave dwelling monster iconography), lean into gnome's magical nature, make it so they all can talk to animals, forest gnomes can grow and animate plants, rock gnomes are little earthbenders, ocean gnomes summon winds and rain...

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I was flicking through Dragon Magazine 241 (1997) and in an article by Roger Moore about adding additional PC races (including Derro, Skulks, Jermlaine and Dopplegangers) came across the following quote:

"The GREYHAWK® campaign, like all others, is open to the development of new PC races. However, any races addedshould maintain the campaign’s overall flavor, which is particulary humanocentric. Humans are the true shakers andmovers of this setting; demihumans and humanoids hold second place, and monsters like dragons, beholders, and soforth come in a distant third..."
My own world is very humanocentric, to the extent that Dwarfs dont exist, Elfs arent a playable race (though half-elfs are) and Halflings are a type fae too. (Goblins, Gnomes, Half-Giants and Saurian are playable however)

So just how Humanocentric is your game and with the resurgence of Greyhawk how do you think the ideal of a "particulary humanocentric" world as a design principle would go down with contemporary players?

My Jewel of the Desert game is passively anti-humanocentric. Humans are maybe the most common race, but they are at best a plurality, not a majority. Orcs and half-orcs are commonplace, elves and half-elves are less common but still present, and dwarves are fairly common. Dragonborn, owlkin, tieflings, gnomes, loxodons, and a handful of races often written off as "evil" (minotaurs and ogres, for example) are also around. The setting is very cosmopolitan, intentionally.

Mostly, I think humanocentrism is dull, and that's compounded by it being pushed so heavily across the D&D space. Variety, especially when backed up by actually caring about physiological differences, is dramatically more interesting than more fawning "look how awesome we humans are; you think you are cooler, monster races, but we have already won, for you see, we have already drawn you as the soyjack and ourselves as chads."

 

[EzekielRaiden]

No one likes Gnomes.

Don't think I've ever seen one thats not an illusionist. Maybe 1 iirc?

I like them.

If you merge them with halflings like I prefer to, creating a single "fey of the land" race.

 

[Tonguez]

Sometimes, but salt fish is still low profit, especially if the salt is likely to be expensive. You aren't going to be trading it more than a few days journey. And you need facilities for salting, drying or smoking (a more likely option given the implied climate), which you would expect to see on the map. More commonly, these techniques were used to store the fish for local consumption when the season prevented fishing.

You should look into the history of the North Sea Herring Fishery which one Dutch source described as a "gold mine" and a cornerstone of the economy

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Not my favorite thing. I dislike refluffing anyway, and I honestly have a hard time as a DM or a player feeling immersion when the party has little connection with the rest of the people in the setting, certainly the people the party associates with. I'd really prefer that at least someone on the team is relatable (if not necessarily actually human).

Sincerely: what makes a dragonborn or tiefling so alien that you cannot relate to them? Why is it that a dwarf or an elf, who will live multiple centuries, a literally inhuman experience, is somehow more relatable than a person who has an unusual head growth or odd skin tone (a perfectly ordinary human experience)?

 

[MGibster]

i really wish they'd play up more the idea of gnomes being fey nature spirits, it could help differentiate them from halflings too, i think the tinker aspect could be worth more if removed from them and given to another species(personally i'd give it to goblins instead to try help shift them out the feral cave dwelling monster iconography), lean into gnome's magical nature, make it so they all can talk to animals, forest gnomes can grow and animate plants, rock gnomes are little earthbenders, ocean gnomes summon winds and rain...

So we're looking for a David the Gnome type of vibe? The goblin tinkerers you're describing are straight out of World of Warcraft (though I'm not sure it originated from them).

 

[MGibster]

Sincerely: what makes a dragonborn or tiefling so alien that you cannot relate to them? Why is it that a dwarf or an elf, who will live multiple centuries, a literally inhuman experience, is somehow more relatable than a person who has an unusual head growth or odd skin tone (a perfectly ordinary human experience)?

Nothing. Pretty much every playable species in D&D is just a human with funny bumps on their head. I see this as a feature rather than a bug.