D&D (2024) Rogues can now Sneak Attack with all thrown weapons - Tridents, Spears, Handaxes, they all work!

[Mistwell]

You are looking in the wrong place. Find the word “club” look directly above. You will see the words “simple melee weapons” in italics. The other three weapon categories are similar.

Yes I know, I said I see where you're looking. And you're arguing a Rogue cannot sneak attack with a thrown dagger?

I think given WOTC programed DNDBeyond to indicate thrown weapons can sneak attack, that the default is that they can sneak attack with a thrown weapon unless they change it.

 

[Maxperson]

This is incorrect. It either says Ammunition or Thrown. It does not say Ranged in the table headings.

I mean, it is correct. You even quoted it, though you circled the wrong thing. The thrown property you circled is under the heading Simple Melee Weapons, while the ammunition property you circled is under the heading Simple Ranged Weapons.

So when he said that the distinction between a ranged weapon and melee weapon is under the headings, he was correct. The property is not what makes something melee or ranged.

A rogue can only sneak attack with a ranged weapon(dart or light crossbow on your list) or with a weapon that is also finesse(dart on the ranged weapon list and dagger on the melee weapon list). There's no reason to assume that just because the finesse property allows sneak attack, that the range(not ranged) property does as well. A melee weapon with the range property is still a melee weapon, not a ranged weapon.

 

[Mistwell]

I mean, it is correct. You even quoted it, though you circled the wrong thing. The thrown property you circled is under the heading Simple Melee Weapons, while the ammunition property you circled is under the heading Simple Ranged Weapons.

So when he said that the distinction between a ranged weapon and melee weapon is under the headings, he was correct. The property is not what makes something melee or ranged.

A rogue can only sneak attack with a ranged weapon(dart or light crossbow on your list) or with a weapon that is also finesse(dart on the ranged weapon list and dagger on the melee weapon list). There's no reason to assume that just because the finesse property allows sneak attack, that the range(not ranged) property does as well. A melee weapon with the range property is still a melee weapon, not a ranged weapon.

Read more posts. Just go look. We can't keep covering the same ground.

 

[Maxperson]

Which rule says that?

Sneak Attack says, "the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon." Clicking on "Ranged" takes you to:

"A Range weapon has a range in parentheses after the Ammunition or Thrown property."

Right now, by the rules, they can sneak attack with a thrown weapon. Now if they change that rule, which they might do, you will be right. But right now, that is the rule.

Again, just because ranged weapons are also range weapons, so clicking takes you there, doesn't mean that range weapons, which will also take you there, are ranged weapons.

All X are Y does not mean that all Y are X.

 

[Maxperson]

Ah I see where you're referencing. So you are arguing you cannot sneak attack with a thrown dagger now?

The dagger is also finesse, so is an exception to the melee weapon not being able to sneak attack when thrown.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Ah I see where you're referencing. So you are arguing you cannot sneak attack with a thrown dagger now?

No, because a dagger is a finesse weapon, and you can sneak attack with finesse weapons. This has already been explained.

In order to sneak attack a weapon must either have the finesse PROPERTY or be in the ranged CATEGORY.

 

[Maxperson]

Read more posts. Just go look. We can't keep covering the same ground.

I did and your post leads us right back to my first post in the thread, which I thought was a joke, but that you guys are seriously arguing.

Look at the 5e DMG(the 5.5e one isn't out yet) and take a peek at the ballista. It has a range that lists two ranges. It lacks the parentheses, but it's also from the prior edition. The siege weapon category apparently doesn't matter given the fact that it has the range property.

Which leads to...


Not only is there not a rule against it now, but there is a rule that says it!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Again, just because ranged weapons are also range weapons, so clicking takes you there, doesn't mean that range weapons, which will also take you there, are ranged weapons.

All X are Y does not mean that all Y are X.

All dogs have four legs. My cats have four legs, ergo my cats are both dogs.


I mean, if we are bing picky, there are ranged weapons that do not have the thrown or ammunition properties - magic items like Hank’s bow.

And there are three legged dogs.

 

[Maxperson]

All dogs have four legs. My cats have four legs, ergo my cats are both dogs.

Bad example!

 

[Mannahnin]

Why stop there! Go full Gamers and use a ballista, which also works at range.