D&D (2024) Rogues can now Sneak Attack with all thrown weapons - Tridents, Spears, Handaxes, they all work!

[MarkB]

The wrong link to the range property is in the section of the digital version of the PHB2024. Someone at DndBeyond messed it up there. Probably a different person than the one doing the class section.
In the PHB I also had a few links that put you into the 2014 section of the rules. I think it was in the equipment section. I don't know if they are still there.

Yeah, this does seem like a case of someone getting overzealous with the hyperlinks when making the digital version of the book.

I think that's some kind of custom plug-in. I've never seen that in D&D Beyond either.

It's Beyond20, the extension that links D&D Beyond to Roll20, or something very similar.

 

[ECMO3]

The weapon table lists melee and ranged weapons.

Range is a property.

Btw note that ranged is not green on dndbeyond. Not meaning the property but the list.

But again. If you think that your reading is correct, play as you like.

About GWF. If it is only the weapon die, it would be noted there. If you can ise it on all dice for the attack, the math of the feat works fine. Othereise it is not.

I am again really surprised why people try to read rules in a way that makes them too good or too bad when the normal reading is balanced...View attachment 382169

Take that bit you copied above go into to DND Beyond and click on "Ranged" 46 words into the description of Sneak attack

Sure the weapon table lists Ranged and melee weapons and some of the melee weapons are also ranged weapons as linked in the description of Sneak Attack and the text where it says what a "Range Weapon" is.

I am surprised that that people seem to click to an old interpretation that is clearly and unequivocally changed in the new rules.

 

[Maxperson]

I am not making that mistake. IF it's a mistake, WOTC's programmers are the ones who made it. Not. me.



It does. Because that entire section has nothing to do with a specific weapon at all. It is in fact the very definition of when you can make a sneak attack, where they tell you directly that you can do it with a finesse weapon or a ranged weapon, and then they tell you the definition of a ranged weapon is the definition of a range weapon.

If you don't like that, take it up with WOTC.



I understand it just fine. I have no issue with a trident being used as a ranged weapon applicable to sneak attack and do not find it silly. You do have such a problem. OK, take it up with WOTC for defining it that way in DNDBeyond. To me it makes good sense.

If you can sneak attack with a trident, you can do so with a greatsword or glaive. It's nonsensical to allow the one and not the others.

 

[ECMO3]

"Range" is a property, "ranged" is a category.

A "Range Weapon has a range in parentheses after the Ammunition or Thrown property." is any weapon with the thrown property and a range in parenthesis after it.

This is clear spelled out right there in the PHB

In a different thread it was debated already. In 2014 this was clarified already. The wording is just a bit worse now.

The wording is different. The 2014 definition of Ranged Weapon is a weapon used to attack at a distance.

This is fundamentally different and actually MORE ambiguous than the new wording.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A "Range Weapon has a range in parentheses after the Ammunition or Thrown property." is any weapon with the thrown property and a range in parenthesis after it.

Ranged != range

This is clear spelled out right there in the PHB



The wording is different. The 2014 definition of Ranged Weapon is a weapon used to attack at a distance.

This definition is still there IIRC.

This is fundamentally different and actually MORE ambiguous than the new wording.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Take that bit you copied above go into to DND Beyond and click on "Ranged" 46 words into the description of Sneak attack

Sure the weapon table lists Ranged and melee weapons and some of the melee weapons are also ranged weapons as linked in the description of Sneak Attack and the text where it says what a "Range Weapon" is.

I am surprised that that people seem to click to an old interpretation that is clearly and unequivocally changed in the new rules.

Please read my post where I explain how to get into the section where my screenshot is from before embarassing yourself.

 

[ECMO3]

I don't know. Remember, melee attack and melee weapon attack were different in 5e. Those seemed to be the same to most people I know who read it.

Right but melee weapon and melee weapon are not different.

The text in 2024 states what a Range Weapon is and it includes all published thrown weapons. It does not say Ranged Attack, it says Range Weapon.

You might be right, but if you are it's extremely silly to require finesse on a weapon unless it's a trident and you can throw it. Then the game throws finesse right out the window.

You can get sneak attack, but you can not attack using dexterity, so there is a difference.

It seems very, very probable that the rule was intended to work with thrown weapons only when used at range and not in melee.

RAI this does seem reasonable with the new wording. It does not seem reasonable that they intended to exclude hand axes or spears RAI.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Right but melee weapon and melee weapon are not different.

The text in 2024 states what a Range Weapon is and it includes all published thrown weapons. It does not say Ranged Attack, it says Range Weapon.

Nope. It says rangeD weapon.

You can get sneak attack, but you can not attack using dexterity, so there is a difference.



RAI this does seem reasonable with the new wording. It does not seem reasonable that they intended to exclude hand axes or spears RAI.

 

[ECMO3]

Ranged != range

But Ranged Weapon does equal Range Weapon especially when they link to the former from the latter!

This definition is still there IIRC.

No the wording has changed and the new is even worse and more ambiguous:

Melee or Ranged. A weapon is classified as either Melee or Ranged. A Melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet, whereas a Ranged weapon is used to attack at a greater distance.

If you hang your hat on this awful wording any reach weapon (whip, Pike, Glaive etc) is a ranged weapon when used to attack beyond 5 feet and a crossbow fired from within 5 feet is a melee weapon. Further this is not the definition linked from Sneak Attacl

 

[Maxperson]

But Ranged Weapon does equal Range Weapon especially when they link to the former from the latter!

No it doesn't equal range. Range is the parentheses range. Ranged weapons is the category listed on the weapons table. They are different.

Melee or Ranged. A weapon is classified as either Melee or Ranged. A Melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet, whereas a Ranged weapon is used to attack at a greater distance.

If you hang your hat on this awful wording any reach weapon (whip, Pike, Glaive etc) is a ranged weapon when used to attack beyond 5 feet and a crossbow fired from within 5 feet is a melee weapon. Further this is not the definition linked from Sneak Attacl

It's clearly talking about the classifications on the weapons table. Is the wording poor with regard to whips, chips, chains and dips? Yep. That doesn't turn range into the ranged weapons category. If range = ranged, the thrown weapons would appear in both categories instead of just melee.