D&D (2024) Rogues can now Sneak Attack with all thrown weapons - Tridents, Spears, Handaxes, they all work!

[ECMO3]

Javelin, spear, hand axe, trident, any other thrown weapon. Uses strength because it's a melee weapon. Cannot sneak attack.

In 2024 you can sneak attack with these.

There is not now, nor was there ever a requirement to use dexterity for a Sneak Attack and if that was the intent, that is simply what they would have said - "you can sneak attack with a weapon that uses your dexterity modifier for attack and damage".

This is the same in 2014 and 2024, despite slight changes in the wording.

The wording change is not slight:

"A Range weapon has a range in parentheses after the Ammunition or Thrown property."

There was no similar definition in 2014.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

But Ranged Weapon does equal Range Weapon especially when they link to the former from the latter!

I don't know who creates links. Probably not the game designers.

No the wording has changed and the new is even worse and more ambiguous:

Melee or Ranged. A weapon is classified as either Melee or Ranged. A Melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet, whereas a Ranged weapon is used to attack at a greater distance.

If you hang your hat on this awful wording any reach weapon (whip, Pike, Glaive etc) is a ranged weapon when used to attack beyond 5 feet and a crossbow fired from within 5 feet is a melee weapon.

I agree with you there. That is not helping at all.

Further this is not the definition linked from Sneak Attacl

Again. The link seems to just be wrong. Not the first time that happened on the internet.

Especially when the similar section at the other place does not have that link. Only the finesse one. See my screenshot and instruction.

 

[MarkB]

But Ranged Weapon does equal Range Weapon especially when they link to the former from the latter!

They do that in the version of Sneak Attack found in the 2024 PHB, but not in the version of Sneak Attack found under Game Rules in the Classes section. One of those is in error, it's currently unclear which.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

In 2024 you can sneak attack with these.

Nope.

There is not now, nor was there ever a requirement to use dexterity for a Sneak Attack and if that was the intent, that is simply what they would have said - "you can sneak attack with a weapon that uses your dexterity modifier for attack and damage".

Correct.

The wording change is not slight:

"A Range weapon has a range in parentheses after the Ammunition or Thrown property."

Yes. But irrelevant as it is not the definition of "ranged". But I agree. If you don't read properly or read carelessly, it is an easy mistake to make.

There was no similar definition in 2014.

 

[Plaguescarred]

This is a hyperlink shortcut error from DDB. The printed rules are clear to me Sneak Attack can be used with a Ranged weapon and not Range weapon. Probably the programmer doesn't master the game (enought) to know that Ranged Category vs Range Property are two distinct elements.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They do that in the version of Sneak Attack found in the 2024 PHB, but not in the version of Sneak Attack found under Game Rules in the Classes section. One of those is in error, it's currently unclear which.

Actually it is pretty clear. But easy to make the mistake because of similar (but not the same) names of a weappn categegory and a weapon property.

 

[ECMO3]

And we're back to "a ranged attack made with a weapon =/= an attack with a ranged weapon". You know, I wasted a good twenty minutes trying to explain this to a new player not long back- they looked at me like I was insane!

No this is quite worse.

People are arguing that Ranged Weapon =/= Range Weapon

These people are further arguing that the definition for Ranged Weapon linked in the Sneak Attack section of the PHB on DNDB is not the same as the Ranged Weapon definition which should be used for Sneak Attack.

Finally despite the fact that they reject the definition of Ranged Weapon linked from Sneak Attack they also will not provide any written definition in the 2024 rules which they think should be used.

 

[ECMO3]

It's clearly talking about the classifications on the weapons table. Is the wording poor with regard to whips, chips, chains and dips? Yep. That doesn't turn range into the ranged weapons category. If range = ranged, the thrown weapons would appear in both categories instead of just melee.

I agree, it is poorly worded and I also agree that thrown weapons are in both catagories except for darts (which are only Ranged).

 

[ECMO3]

Exactly. "Range" (p.214) is a property some weapons have. Specifically, two kinds of weapons have the "range" property: Ranged weapons (which is a binary classification: weapons are either ranged or melee, p.213), and "thrown" weapons (which is a property some but not all melee weapons have, p.214).

Yes but that text on Range specifically describes Range Weapons .... not just Range or just Range Attacks and it is the text linked from the Sneak Attack section.

If there was other wording discounting it you would have a point, but there is no wording refuting this.

By the rules, rogues cannot sneak attack with thrown melee weapons, unless they are also finesse weapons.

By the written rules in the 2024 PHB they absolutely can.

 

[ECMO3]

The headings in italics in weapons table. First one - simple melee weapons - is directly above the word “club”. 2024 and 2014 are the same.

The headings are not relevant. This is merely a table. The definition is relevant and Mistwell even circled the parts that matter.