D&D (2024) Rogues can now Sneak Attack with all thrown weapons - Tridents, Spears, Handaxes, they all work!

[ECMO3]

It doesn't work that way. A broken link isn't a rule of any sort. Hell, no link is a rule. RAW is what is written in the PHB and the definition of range =/= ranged in that book.

There is no actual evidence this is broken other than people's feelings and now it is evident, this is in two places, not just one.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Whoever decided 'ranged' and 'range' were distinct enough terms to use like this needs a talking to.

 

[ECMO3]

It's clear what Sneak Attack says, it says Ranged weapon, not Range weapon.

It is quite a leap to suggest that a Range Weapon is not a Ranged Weapon, but as you pointed out a weapon used to attack at greater than 5 feet is classified as a "Ranged Weapon".

 

[ECMO3]

Whoever decided 'ranged' and 'range' were distinct enough terms to use like this needs a talking to.

It is not just "Ranged" and "Range" .... it is Ranged Weapon and Range Weapon and I do not think the intent is for them to be distinct.

 

[Mistwell]

And you won't provide any rules that support your position.

I don't just have one section of the PHB, thanks to Planescarred, I now have two different areas of the PHB stating that a thrown weapon is a Ranged weapon and still no verbiage that says it is not.

Go with me here for a moment.

People are programming DnDBeyond. It's safe to assume those people do not include Jeremy Crawford or another designer, but technical oriented persons.

They used two different tech people. One programmed a version accessible directly through the digital version of the PHB (VERSION A). Another programmed a version accessible through the individual classes in what had at one time been a Basic version of the rules. (VERSION B).

VERSION A

The first tech person is choosing to link the word "Ranged" to the definition of "Range Weapon". Some possible scenarios here:

1. Maybe it's because a designer told them to do that.

2. Maybe they're guessing and they guessed right.

3. Maybe they're guessing and they guessed wrong.

4. Maybe they just used a database, entered the first four letters of Rang, saw on a drop-down menu there is a Range Weapon definition they can link to and didn't see a Ranged Weapon definition on that drop-down, and so chose the Range Weapon without more thought to it.

And, as they work on many projects, they consistently made the same choice any time it came up. Which would be just as consistently right or consistently wrong depending on which of those four scenarios happened in the first place.

VERSION B

An entirely different tech person programming a different version accessible through DNDBeyond, who when faced with this same choice as the first tech instead just went "Heck, I dunno, this is out of my paygrade, I'm just going to not link to anything on this word."



All this is demonstrating in more words than necessary that just because you can find more than one version which has the same result, that doesn't mean it's not in error.

 

[Mistwell]

It's clear what Sneak Attack says, it says Ranged weapon, not Range weapon.

Sure but then DNDBeyond, in at least the PHB version of that, links you to Range Weapon from Ranged Weapon in that sneak attack text. Making this clear as mud.

 

[ECMO3]

Wait, so by your reasoning, a reach weapon can be a range(d) weapon? Because it attacks beyond 5 ft? Are glaives and pikes Ranged? Is that how you're gonna play? Are you gonna use Sharpshooter with a lance?

Well unfortunately that is not a Ranged Weapon due to the wording on page 214 as these weapons do not have a parentheses with a range after the ammunition or thrown property.

Never mind sneak attack, are you gonna treat "range" and "ranged" as synonymous for all the rules in this book? I'm asking in good faith: have you thought this through?

No but I am going to treat the term "Range Weapon" and "Ranged Weapon" as synonomous when it comes to applying Sneak Attack because the verbiage defining them is complementary and the former is specifically what is linked from the Sneak Attack section.

Also I will note if you reject the idea that a "Range Weapon" is the same as a "Ranged Weapon" then the only definition of Ranged Weapon we are left with is the definition on page 213, which would ridiculously include Lances and Whips and anything a Bugbear is wielding. If you accept these both mean the same thing, the reach weapons can be excluded because they do not have a parentheses after ammunition or thrown.

 

[Mistwell]

Given the likelihood that RAI is not to allow what you are proposing,

I have no idea what the likelihood of RAI in this scenario is and I don't think you do either. I'd have to go back through all the times in a video UA one of the designers talks about this and see if I can glean some intent from what they say.

 

[ECMO3]

Go with me here for a moment.

People are programming DnDBeyond. It's safe to assume those people do not include Jeremy Crawford or another designer, but technical oriented persons.

This COULD explain the link and COULD explain using "Range". Using it to explain both of these would be one heck of a coincidence and if you do that you are still left with the other definition of "Ranged Weapons" that also includes thrown weapons.

 

[ECMO3]

Regarding RAI, there is little I can think of in terms of thematics to explain why throwing a dagger would qualify for sneak attack and throwing a spear or hand axe wouldn't.

I do agree that was RAW in 5E, but it did not really make sense in 5E as evidenced by all the confusion surrounding it and it makes sense to fix that now in the new rules.