D&D (2024) Rogues can now Sneak Attack with all thrown weapons - Tridents, Spears, Handaxes, they all work!

[ECMO3]

I think it highly unlikely that they will forbid sneak attack from working with a greatsword or glaive, but allow it with a trident.

I don't think a Trident was intended and a Rogue is not proficient in it, so IMO it is likely this was overlooked or they felt it was not a big enough deal to make a bunch more words to exclude it.

I absolutely think thrown Hand Axes, Javelins, Spears etc are intended because it never made sense to disallow them and allow thrown daggers.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah in 5E ... and they changed that in 2024 by tieing "Range Weapon" specifically to the Thrown property like they said they would.

In another words - If we wanted it to apply we would have done this ..... and in the new rules they did that!

I don't have either DDB or the 5.5e PHB, so I have to go by what's posted here with regard to wording and if it's 5.5e or not. When I posted that I didn't realize that it was 5e and not 5.5e.

 

[Mistwell]

I think it highly unlikely that they will forbid sneak attack from working with a greatsword or glaive, but allow it with a trident. That just doesn't make any sense to allow. Now, WotC has made some very questionable decisions with rules in the past, so I'm not certain that what I'm saying is RAI, but I think it more likely than not.

It makes perfect sense to me. I have no idea why it doesn't make sense to you. Why WOULDN'T they give a better use to the long suffering trident weapon in the new rules given the opportunity, and not give that same boost to the always-popular greatsword and glaive? It's the exact sort of boost I'd be looking for when drafting new rules to balance out a weapon that was so underused because it didn't do anything special that some other weapon did better.

Bring on the trident-wielding rogue! It's not overpowered, has some interesting flavor, and makes the trident more-often chosen as a selection.

 

[Maxperson]

It makes perfect sense to me. I have no idea why it doesn't make sense to you. Why WOULDN'T they give a better use to the long suffering trident weapon in the new rules given the opportunity, and not give that same boost to the always-popular greatsword and glaive? It's the exact sort of boost I'd be looking for when drafting new rules to balance out a weapon that was so underused because it didn't do anything special that some other weapon did better.

Because it makes no sense in the fiction. I don't accept meta rationalization like that. If a rogue can use one big and unwieldy weapon to sneak attack with, they should be able to use all of them.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

why?
because of some 4E legacy that we must comply to?

Nope.

 

[ECMO3]

I can think of it. A dagger is looked it(rightly or wrongly) as being more of a precision weapon when thrown than an axe or spear.

It is not. It is actually much less precise weapon than either of these (especially a throwing spear).

A dagger is more or less a small sword and can not be thrown IRL with any sort of finesse (excuse the pun).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Great find!

Yeah. Probably it is better to read it with exception based design in mind:

Melee weaponsa are used at 5ft. Ranged weapons are used at longer ranged (if nothing else states something different).

Properties of weapons are exceptions to the general rule.

Other interpretations have the logic reversed.

And the PHB right in the beginning tells use that exception based design is used.

 

[roguish]

Well unfortunately that is not a Ranged Weapon due to the wording on page 214 as these weapons do not have a parentheses with a range after the ammunition or thrown property.

[referring to reach weapons]

I am fascinated. So you think that the definition of a Range(d) Weapon is

• a weapon used to attack at a greater distance than 5ft (p.213)

AND

• a weapon with a range in parentheses after the Ammunition or Thrown property (p.214)

REGARDLESS OF

• whether it's listed under the Ranged or Melee sections of the Weapons table

Did I get this right?

So if I have a dart, which is a Simple Ranged Weapon according to the Weapons table, with the Finesse and Thrown (Range 20/60) properties, and I get cornered and I panic and I chuck it at the bloke who's next to me, within 5 ft, what happens?

What weapon am I chucking? Is it a Range(d) weapon, due to the fact that I am throwing a Thrown Ranged weapon which has a Range?

Or is it a Melee weapon, due to the fact that I am attacking someone within 5 ft and not farther?

Do I get disadvantage for making a ranged attack within 5 ft of a non-incapacitated foe? (By the rules as I understand them, I most definitely should.) Or not, because the short distance transformed my ranged thrown weapon to a melee weapon, and it's not a ranged attack any more? Although, and apologies for repeating myself, I just chucked it. I threw it. It flew off my hand. I am not holding it any more. I parted ways with it.

How is this supposed to work?

 

[ECMO3]

Yeah. Probably it is better to read it with exception based desogn in mind:

Best to read it and then read the 2024 rules where we note they tie "Range Weapon" to the Thrown property .... almost exactly like they said they would if they wanted Thrown weapons to be Ranged Weapons.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Best to read it and then read the 2024 rules where we note they tie "Range Weapon" to the Thrown property .... almost exactly like they said they would if they wanted Thrown weapons to be Ranged Weapons.

Nope. Backwards logic.