D&D (2024) 2024 Magic Items, Crafting, Etc

[Horwath]

See, this is the kind of thing I'm not particularly happy about. If this works like this, then every single rogue will have a weapon that does this because- well - it's just too good to not have. Double your attacks per round at the cost of a single minor magic item? Of course a rogue will take this.

To me, that's the definition of unbalanced. If a given option is so good that it becomes the default. That a character would be foolish not to have this.

This is something I'm likely going to have to think about long and hard.

this is a problem in class design 1st and then maybe the item design.

Once per turn is bad mechanic, it begs to find any exploit possible. for any class or any feature.

either rogue needs:

1. have sneak attack on every attack. 3.5e style, or

2. have sneak attack work only once on YOUR turn, not out of turn.

off-topic:
why does sneak attack only works with Ranged and Finesse weapons?
Do we really need one of the worst legacies of 4E for rogue?

 

[Hussar]

This isn't new, it's just another way to get two sneak attacks per round, which people have been doing forever. Also, other Rogue subclasses can easily do two sneak attacks as well, it's not like this is some unique Thief capability

I suspect this will become popular since it's easy and doesn't require teamwork with an ally, but Rogues do weak damage even with two sneak attacks per round (but arguably make up for it with strong non-combat utility), so I can't see how it's all that unbalanced.

See, I have no problems with two characters working together to give the PC rogue a second sneak attack. That's great. That's teamwork. I mean, good grief, the cleric is giving up an action to cast Command, just to grant the rogue a second attack? That's fine. Got zero problem with that. Spending a relatively small amount of gold so I can get double sneak attacks pretty much whenever I want is just so good that it's default and it takes away that teamwork thing.

SInce when are rogues not dealing enough damage? Rogues are fine IME.

 

[Hussar]

off-topic:
why does sneak attack only works with Ranged and Finesse weapons?
Do we really need one of the worst legacies of 4E for rogue?

Because it doesn't make a lot of sense to sneak attack with a halberd? Sneak attacking with a lance while charging on a horse? It's pretty hard to "sneak" attack with a great axe.

 

[Horwath]

Because it doesn't make a lot of sense to sneak attack with a halberd? Sneak attacking with a lance while charging on a horse? It's pretty hard to "sneak" attack with a great axe.

it was called precision damage before(sneak attack, stealth attack, sudden strike, skirmish attack, what not), and you can be precise with anything.

hunting boars with spears is a stealth job, and surprising a boar with a spear and killing it with a single blow could be called "sneak attack"

 

[pukunui]

off-topic: shields should not have +1/+2/+3 bonus but it own special effects.
+2 AC is enough for the shield as doubling shield and armor magic bonuses break AC math.
+1 shield could be a special magic shield that requires attunement.

Agreed. I tend not to include any magic shields that grant +X to AC in my games. I prefer ones like the sentinel shield.

 

[Horwath]

SInce when are rogues not dealing enough damage? Rogues are fine IME.

2nd to last in HPs, 2nd to last in armor quality, yeah rogues should deal more damage.

extra attack feature between levels 9-11 would solve lot of rogues damage problems.

 

[Zardnaar]

2nd to last in HPs, 2nd to last in armor quality, yeah rogues should deal more damage.

extra attack feature between levels 9-11 would solve lot of rogues damage problems.

Rogue damage problem is 3.5 sneak attack but 5E hp bloat.

Without the 3.5 ability to sneak attack with every attack.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

SInce when are rogues not dealing enough damage? Rogues are fine IME.

I didn't say "not enough" I just said weak. Rogues are not designed for high damage they're designed for high non-combat utility at the expense of damage. I agree they are fine, even with this method of obtaining two sneak attacks per round.

 

[Kobold Stew]

It's a helpful summary, and the video has some good insights.

My three main takeaways from PT's discussion, though, are these:

1. The idea of a wizard crafting through short rests and while riding a horse is silly and just wouldn't fly at my table. YMMV but I cannot believe that is what's intended, and there is no need for it to be allowed.

2. The assistants have to be able to craft the item themselves: a legendary item's prep can't be halved by having a villager bringing you coffee from time to time (or even all the time). I don't know if the rules are going to be clearer on "assistants", but it seems reasonable that they need to be capable of making the item on their own. Two people crafting an item together and taking half the time is fine. Significantly, this kind of doubling up is not allowed for scrolls, which has some spillover effects.

3. I think there are, as a result, wider economic implications for the crafting of scrolls. High level scrolls are a substantial investment of somebody's time, and I don't think there's going to be a lot of wizards sitting around writing scrolls. Even if they want to invest their time making things for others to use, their time is much better spent making magic items.

 

[MarkB]

what's with the idea of "item regains dX charges every day"? why not all charges?

Only thing that will come from this is:

I rolled "1" on my item recharge,
Well, guess we are staying here another 24hrs.
I rolled "1" again, heh, we are staying another 24hrs here...

Why are you talking about this like it's new? That's how most charged items have worked in 5e since the start.