D&D (2024) Experienced DMs, how useful is the 2024 DMG to you?

[Remathilis]

That's what's being pushed back against here. People who have zero dog in the race, haven't played the game in years, haven't bothered actually understanding the context of the changes, proceeding to pontificate about how the game has changed so much for the worse. It's really frustrating to see.

Absolutely this. QUITE frankly, I'm sick of it. Every thread is full of people who repeatedly have said they don't play the current edition (or play some clone variant) coming in and crapping on the game. There is no element of looking for improvement, just a constant desire to be a polemic and voice their own believed superiority. It's tiring because it keeps putting people into two camps: people who like D&D as it is have to defend every aspect of it (lest the polemics say they were proven right) and the people who think D&D peaked decades ago and can't accept that game changed without them. Threads here either die in 10 posts or drag on for 100 pages fighting the same edition wars by proxy.

I want to talk about the areas 5.24 is lacking. I don't because so many people hop on and smugly gloat they were right and 5.24 is garbage. It's been bothering me for the better part of the playtest cycle. And honestly has lowered my general opinion of the D&D community writ large.

Sorry, I needed to get that off my chest.

 

[Li Shenron]

More than 2014? Less? Or some other measure?

Equally nearly useless, besides the obvious magic items.

In theory, the 2014 DMG would have been useful if I had used some of the optional modules, but I ended up running only fairly standard games. I didn't even use encounter building guidelines, and I quite disliked the examples on how to run the exploration pillar of the game, they forced a certain playstyle that the PHB certainly did not imply. All the first part of the DMG about worldbuilding and campaign/adventure design had no value for me.

 

[Hussar]

Absolutely this. QUITE frankly, I'm sick of it. Every thread is full of people who repeatedly have said they don't play the current edition (or play some clone variant) coming in and crapping on the game. There is no element of looking for improvement, just a constant desire to be a polemic and voice their own believed superiority. It's tiring because it keeps putting people into two camps: people who like D&D as it is have to defend every aspect of it (lest the polemics say they were proven right) and the people who think D&D peaked decades ago and can't accept that game changed without them. Threads here either die in 10 posts or drag on for 100 pages fighting the same edition wars by proxy.

I want to talk about the areas 5.24 is lacking. I don't because so many people hop on and smugly gloat they were right and 5.24 is garbage. It's been bothering me for the better part of the playtest cycle. And honestly has lowered my general opinion of the D&D community writ large.

Sorry, I needed to get that off my chest.

Oh, hey, no, I get that. I've been limiting myself to less and less threads as times goes on just because it gets so exhausting. It's hillarious going from my computer, where any of the blocked posts are completely excised, and then seeing just how long the threads are when I use my phone. I've gotten a whole lot more trigger happy about hitting that ignore button than I ever used to be, just because I find my pool of patience is so much shallower these days.

I have ZERO problem talking about 5e's short comings. Or, at least where it comes up short for me. I don't like how magic dependent the game has become, for example, because I find that having everything be a spell slows the game to a crawl. Or, maybe let's talk about how the exploration rules in 5e are ... possibly lacking. ((Granted, I have no idea if 5.24 has changed that))

But, sheesh, does EVERY thread talking about 5.24 have to devolve into this endless argument about whether it's a "new edition" or how much WotC hates gamers?

 

[Oofta]

Absolutely this. QUITE frankly, I'm sick of it. Every thread is full of people who repeatedly have said they don't play the current edition (or play some clone variant) coming in and crapping on the game. There is no element of looking for improvement, just a constant desire to be a polemic and voice their own believed superiority. It's tiring because it keeps putting people into two camps: people who like D&D as it is have to defend every aspect of it (lest the polemics say they were proven right) and the people who think D&D peaked decades ago and can't accept that game changed without them. Threads here either die in 10 posts or drag on for 100 pages fighting the same edition wars by proxy.

I want to talk about the areas 5.24 is lacking. I don't because so many people hop on and smugly gloat they were right and 5.24 is garbage. It's been bothering me for the better part of the playtest cycle. And honestly has lowered my general opinion of the D&D community writ large.

Sorry, I needed to get that off my chest.

First, I agree. They skirt forum rules but to me, it often feels like thread crapping and derailment for no reason.

But instead of discussing that, where do you feel the 2024 DMG is lacking? Any suggestions? Sadly, I've been busy and have only really been reading through the PHB (almost done!) but I have a couple of lacking areas in the DMG.

I'm hoping the MM will give us details on building custom monsters. I've gotten decent at it, but having general idea of target numbers and interesting templates would help a lot. Fortunately there's other advice out there and I'm still holding out hope it will be in the MM.

Another is that as much as I thought skill challenges from 4E were half-baked on release, it had interesting concepts. So I was hoping they would take the chase rules and build out from there to show how it's just a special type of noncombat complex encounter. Still something I can do on my own of course.

Maybe I'll have more thoughts in a few days, I really want to set aside some time before my next game. What are yours?

 

[Hussar]

/snip

For an experienced DM - sure, you'll be fine. Though the book lacks a lot of the resources found in the 2014 DMG for stocking dungeons (many of which were reprinted from the 1E DMG - for good reason!)

As a DMG that was intended to introduce new DMs to the game - which I heard a few times was the intent - I think it's passable on running the game (some good and bad advice), but often very bad at preparing for the game and designing adventures.

See, I look at something like that and think, "good." I never used those "stocking the dungeon" charts back in 1e and I certainly never used them in 5e either. Has anyone ACTUALLY used this? Good grief, even the most verbose dungeons that I've seen have never used those charts. To me, those charts were utterly useless and it makes perfect sense why they would get dropped. They got dropped because no one uses them. I'm assuming you mean the ten or so pages in Appendix A in the 2014 DMG. Until you mentioned it here, I had completely forgotten they existed.

Given that there are ten billion random generators out there that will do all of this faster, easier and probably better than what's in the DMG, it's not a surprise that this gets cut out.

 

[Remathilis]

Oh, hey, no, I get that. I've been limiting myself to less and less threads as times goes on just because it gets so exhausting. It's hillarious going from my computer, where any of the blocked posts are completely excised, and then seeing just how long the threads are when I use my phone. I've gotten a whole lot more trigger happy about hitting that ignore button than I ever used to be, just because I find my pool of patience is so much shallower these days.

I have ZERO problem talking about 5e's short comings. Or, at least where it comes up short for me. I don't like how magic dependent the game has become, for example, because I find that having everything be a spell slows the game to a crawl. Or, maybe let's talk about how the exploration rules in 5e are ... possibly lacking. ((Granted, I have no idea if 5.24 has changed that))

But, sheesh, does EVERY thread talking about 5.24 have to devolve into this endless argument about whether it's a "new edition" or how much WotC hates gamers?

I have nitpicks. I think they botched how skills are presented. They ignored downtime in favor of bastions and made languages unnecessarily hard to get. There are areas of the DMG that feel like concepts rather than fleshed out examples (The creating traps rules are a major step down from Xanathar). But I feel any discussion where these things get brought up doesn't address things in a constructive manner, but with people saying "told you 6e was a Ha$bro cash grab".

 

[Remathilis]

Maybe I'll have more thoughts in a few days, I really want to set aside some time before my next game. What are yours?

I addressed a few of these in my post above, but here's my two major nitpicks

1. A lot of areas where "the DM creates" are given advice (and some examples) but rarely the tools needed. The monster creation rules are just "refluff". The dungeon rules are "grab a map and create encounters". The treasure tables only give a gp total and tell you to convert treasure into other coins, gems and art. The trap rules are basically a table with DCs and damage dice.
2. Bastions basically ate downtime. The only downtime activities suggested are training for leveling (optional) and crafting.

Those aren't insurmountable issues, but I do feel they are areas half baked or weaker than 2014.

 

[Parmandur]

They got dropped because no one uses them

I mean, I like the charts and all, but it seems hard to deny that this is the reason they got the boot: more people are likely to run games in the Free City of Greyhawk than to use those tables extensively.

 

[SteveC]

I'm another one of those people who say "it's not out yet for me." But, it will have updated magic items. I suppose that will be useful. Can't say as I'm expecting to use anything else from it. I'll probably read the Greyhawk stuff and see what I remember about it.

Edited to add: reading the rest of the thread, I think that my group may want to use the Bastion system. In that case it's a second thing I'll use.

 

[Stormonu]

I addressed a few of these in my post above, but here's my two major nitpicks

1. A lot of areas where "the DM creates" are given advice (and some examples) but rarely the tools needed. The monster creation rules are just "refluff". The dungeon rules are "grab a map and create encounters". The treasure tables only give a gp total and tell you to convert treasure into other coins, gems and art. The trap rules are basically a table with DCs and damage dice.
2. Bastions basically ate downtime. The only downtime activities suggested are training for leveling (optional) and crafting.

Those aren't insurmountable issues, but I do feel they are areas half baked or weaker than 2014.

Yeah, considering the DM-facing content we got in Xanathar's and Tasha's, the 2024 DMG feels like a major step backwards. It's slightly better organized, but feels more stripped down, like an overview instead of actual tools. It almost feels like they've thrown their hands up and said "we know there's internet tools out there to do these various things so we're not going to bother to flesh them out here (and at the same time not point to or acknowledge which online tools to use)."

I mean, as an example the random dungeon generation tables were taken out, for no good reason I can think of.

And while Greyhawk as a campaign setting is presented in brief in the book (and I do like what I see - the country summaries are really helpful), it doesn't even attempt to go into what sort of elements you should look at or build up if you wanted to make your own - or even expand upon in the presented example. It's like a "show not tell" presentation in a book that is otherwise appears aimed at teaching one to be a DM.