D&D (2024) The Problem with Healing Powercreep

[TwoSix]

Yeah. I agree best not to beat that horse. Glad you see where I'm coming from perspective wise.

Sure. Heck, if you dug through my post history in the 2007-early 2008 timeframe, I shared your opinions. It was @pemerton's posts that made me change my mind about 4e, although I think the fact that I was always more fiction-oriented made me an easy sell.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sure. Heck, if you dug through my post history in the 2007-early 2008 timeframe, I shared your opinions. It was @pemerton's posts that made me change my mind about 4e, although I think the fact that I was always more fiction-oriented made me an easy sell.

I wouldn't characterise the difference in preference about being fiction oriented vs being rules oriented. It is about the relationship between the rules and the fiction. @Emerikol seems to have preference for simulationistic relationship, where the rule elements are directly connected to certain fictional elements, so that they become diegetic. This is a preference I share, albeit I am probably quite a bit less hardcore about it.

 

[TwoSix]

I wouldn't characterise the difference in preference about being fiction oriented vs being rules oriented. It is about the relationship between the rules and the fiction. @Emerikol seems to have preference for simulationistic relationship, where the rule elements are directly connected to certain fictional elements, so that they become diegetic. This is a preference I share, albeit I am probably quite a bit less hardcore about it.

"Fiction oriented" is just how I think about it. We wouldn't want to bring jargon into it.

 

[pemerton]

What if they're Chaotic Neutral?

But the post you replied to was about a good established character.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

"Fiction oriented" is just how I think about it. We wouldn't want to bring jargon into it.

We all care about the fiction though. I just want the rules to be aligned with it whilst you don't care about that much. In fact, the reason I want the rules to be aligned with the fiction, is because then I can only think about the fiction, and the rules will follow. But if you disassociate them, then you end up thinking about the rules more, as the decisions about the rules become disconnected from the decisions of the character so you need to do them separately.

 

[pemerton]

When I decide what I'm going to do with my day in real life, I don't think about my story. Why would my PC be any different?

Because you're a person embedded in your body living a life.

Your PC is an imaginary being you are authoring.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Because you're a person embedded in your body living a life.

Your PC is an imaginary being you are authoring.

But the intent of the play for some people is to get close as possible to feeling like you are that fictional person living in that fictional world, instead of an author writing the fictional character.

 

[pemerton]

But the intent of the play for some people is to get close as possible to feeling like you are that fictional person living in that fictional world, instead of an author writing the fictional character.

They're not embodied in that fictional world, and have no sensory perception of it. Their cognitive and decisional engagement with it is mediated almost entirely by words - perhaps accompanied by the odd illustration. Their emotional response to it is not triggered by actual sensations, perceptions, loves and hates, etc.

So whatever is happening, as far as RPGing goes, it is not going to be a process much like those parts of your life where you walk down the street, slip over in a puddle, feel relieved that you narrowly avoided being hit by a car, sleep with someone for the first time, etc.

 

[TwoSix]

We all care about the fiction though. I just want the rules to be aligned with it whilst you don't care about that much. In fact, the reason I want the rules to be aligned with the fiction, is because then I can only think about the fiction, and the rules will follow. But if you disassociate them, then you end up thinking about the rules more, as the decisions about the rules become disconnected from the decisions of the character so you need to do them separately.

Sure, that tracks. You're right in that I don't care much about a 1-to-1 alignment between rule element and narration; indeed, I prefer their separation because I enjoy the act of framing the rule into a coherent narrative. Reskinning is ultimately one of my favorite things to do in a roleplaying game.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

They're not embodied in that fictional world, and have no sensory perception of it. Their cognitive and decisional engagement with it is mediated almost entirely by words - perhaps accompanied by the odd illustration. Their emotional response to it is not triggered by actual sensations, perceptions, loves and hates, etc.

So whatever is happening, as far as RPGing goes, it is not going to be a process much like those parts of your life where you walk down the street, slip over in a puddle, feel relieved that you narrowly avoided being hit by a car, sleep with someone for the first time, etc.

Yes, there is a difference. But again, it doesn't mean you cannot try to get close. And I think with good description, and especially in social situations where there are no much rules involved you can do it really well. Like I've said many times my roleplaying informed by my LARP experience, and LARPs tend to operate on "being the chracter" principle.