TSR Thieves used to be able to pick locks to open magical closures

[Voadam]

So I was reading OD&D Supplement I Greyhawk and it says thieves can "open locks by picking or foiling magical closures" I hadn't known they could originally open magical closures as an open locks check.

So I checked 1e and was surprised to find they can there as well. Page 27: "Opening locks includes figuring out how to open sliding puzzle locks and foiling magical closures. It is done by picking with tools and by cleverness, plus knowledge and study of such items."

This seems to be missing from 2e's rogue thief ability. Page 56: "Open Locks: A thief can try to pick padlocks, finesse combination locks (if they exist), and solve puzzle locks (locks with sliding panels, hidden releases, and concealed keyholes)."

So I guess that means hold portal and wizard lock can be picked by an OD&D and 1e thief. 1e hold portal explicitly says it is a magical closure, but wizard lock does not and has some exclusive language on what can open it so there is still a judgment call on what takes precedence there. If in 1e it is not effective against wizard locks then it will be an even more super niche ability to find rare different magical closure obstacles.

OD&D:

Hold Portal: A spell to hold a door, gate or the like. It is similar to a locking spell (see below) but it is not permanent. Roll two dice to determine the duration of the spell in turns. Dispel Magic (see below) will immediately negate it, a strong antimagical creature will shatter it and a Knock (see below) will open it.

Wizard Lock: Similar to a Hold Portal, this spell lasts indefinitely. It can be opened by a Knock without breaking the spell. A Wizard Lock can be passed through without a spell of any kind by a Magic-User three levels above the one who placed the spell.

1e:

Hold Portal (Alteration)
Level: 1 Components: V
Range: 2”/level Casting Time: 1 segment
Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: 80 square feet/level
Explanation/Description: This spell magically bars a door, gate or valve of wood, metal or stone. The magical closure holds the portal fast just as if it were securely stopped and locked. The range of the spell is 2” per level of experience of the caster, and it lasts for 1 round per level. Note that any extradimensional creature (demon, devil, elemental, etc.) will shatter such a held portal. A magic-user of four or more experience levels higher than the spell caster can open the held portal at will. A knock spell (q.v.) or dispel magic spell (q.v.) will negate the hold portal. Held portals can be broken or battered.

Wizard Lock (Alteration)
Level: 2 Components: V, S
Range: Touch Casting Time: 2 segments
Duration: Permanent Saving Throw: None
Area of Effect: 30 square feet/level
Explanation/Description: When a wizard lock spell is cast upon a door, chest or portal, it magically locks it. The wizard-locked door or object can be opened only by breaking, a dispel magic, a knock spell (qq.v.), or by a magic-user 4 or more levels higher than the one casting the spell. Note that the last two methods do not remove the wizard lock, they only negate it for a brief duration. Creatures of extra-dimensional nature do not affect a wizard lock as they do a held portal (see hold portal).

 

[R_J_K75]

It may not have been in the core rules of 2E but might have been an option in one of the "complete" books? If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it available to rogues in 3.x as one of the skills? It's been a long time since I played either edition, so who knows I could be wrong.

 

[Dioltach]

It may not have been in the core rules of 2E but might have been an option in one of the "complete" books? If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it available to rogues in 3.x as one of the skills? It's been a long time since I played either edition, so who knows I could be wrong.

If you're referring to what I think you are, in 3.x it was removing magical traps. By definition they have a DC of higher than 20, and only a rogue could disarm them. I don't recall anything about magical locks.

 

[R_J_K75]

If you're referring to what I think you are, in 3.x it was removing magical traps. By definition they have a DC of higher than 20, and only a rogue could disarm them. I don't recall anything about magical locks.

Yeah that sounds right, I had a feeling I was misremembering things a bit, but on the right track to an extent.

 

[Voadam]

Greyhawk also introduced a chance for certain fighters to bust open magically held or locked portals as well, but unlike a thief skill it does not improve with level and is only available to those who luck out at the top end of the 18 percentile strength charts.

This stuck through 1e and 2e but with a little reduction in chances (OD&D need an 18(76) to try, while in 1e and 2e you need an 18(91) to try and only get one chance.

 

[Distracted DM]

If you're referring to what I think you are, in 3.x it was removing magical traps. By definition they have a DC of higher than 20, and only a rogue could disarm them. I don't recall anything about magical locks.

That must be why I rule in 5e that you can disarm magic traps with thieves tools+intelligence... I knew I had that assumption from somewhere.

 

[R_J_K75]

This stuck through 1e and 2e but with a little reduction in chances (OD&D need an 18(76) to try, while in 1e and 2e you need an 18(91) to try and only get one chance.

Didn't play much 1E but played a ton of 2E and I don't recall this at all. Was it in the PHB or buried in some other section of it or another book? I remember in 3E there being a break doors % under strength but don't recall it applying to magically locked doors, then again, it's been close to 25 years since I played 2E AD&D so I may be forgetting the finer points of the rules.

 

[Voadam]

Didn't play much 1E but played a ton of 2E and I don't recall this at all. Was it in the PHB or buried in some other section of it or another book? I remember in 3E there being a break doors % under strength but don't recall it applying to magically locked doors, then again, it's been close to 25 years since I played 2E AD&D so I may be forgetting the finer points of the rules.

Under the Open Doors section of Strength, last paragraph.

Only come into play for fighters with 18/91 or better strength and only as a one-time long shot chance. If you have a girdle of giant strength it can come into play with significantly better chances though.

 

[R_J_K75]

View attachment 386094

View attachment 386095

Under the Open Doors section of Strength, last paragraph.

Only come into play for fighters with 18/91 or better strength and only as a one-time long shot chance. If you have a girdle of giant strength it can come into play with significantly better chances though.

An 18/91 STR was rare, so that's why this never came into play much and probably why I don't recall it. It's funny how these little details get forgotten. Back when we played 2E we were pretty rigid on rolling stats in front of the DM which was pretty par for the course before 3E did away with race and class requirements. I actually rolled a fighter with an 18/00 STR once. I can't remember why but never did play the character. Think it may have gotten mixed in with a bunch of papers and accidently threw it out.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Fascinating. The density of 1e makes it so easy to miss mechanics. The way Thieves interfaced with magic owes a ton to Cugel the Clever and the Grey Mouser.