D&D (2024) Should full casters and Monks have one weapon mastery?

[Clint_L]

They are not by any stretch, in fact full casters get fewer "unique" features. When it comes to class features martials have substantially more unique features already than full casters do, and still would even if everyone got a weapon mastery.

Full casters get more spells than non full-casters but full casters aren't the only classes that get spells by any stretch and spells are not "unique" to full casters. In fact even when looking at spells specifically, and Paladins and Rangers have more fenced and "unique" spell options than any other classes. When it comes to spells, what full casters have that martials don't is more spells and that is what I propose here. Martials would have more weapon masteries.

I am fine with martials getting extra weapon and armor proficiencies and all the unique class features that they get (which are much more than full casters). Where it starts to break down for me is weapon mastery and to a lessor extent fighting styles. If those things are in the game I think they should be available to anyone using a weapon who is proficient with it. They should not be fenced behind feats or multiclassing IMO.

My Wizard is proficient in a staff, has the same proficiency bonus to attack rolls, so why can't he learn to use it as well and do the things with it a Fighter or Ranger could do with it?

Because he’s spending most of time studying magic, not training to mastery rather than mere proficiency with a staff.

Look, I think the first thing to consider is class balance, and everyone here but you seems to agree that adding mastery to full casters is unbalancing.

Secondly, I think counting “unique features” is meaningless. How do you stack a few unique features against a full range of spells that allow far more customization and flexibility?

I know you love optimizing and prefer playing full casters. I think your biases are pretty clear on this issue.

Edit: also, I think arguing that one mastery is not that great compared to multiple is pretty facetious. Most martials do almost all of their fighting with one or at most two weapons, and your hex blade certainly doesn’t want more than one anyway.

 

[Ashrym]

Yes, I would be ok with that. Take characters with no spells at all and give them a few spells.

Okay, do that at your table when you run it. You asked what we thought and I think it's a bad idea.

Also let's be real here, 2 of the 5 martial classes that get weapon masteries also get spells and there are subclasses available which provide on those 3 classes that don't.

So you already have what you asked for by that statement. You can already have weapon mastery and cast spells. Choose one of those classes. Or take the feat. Or multiclass. Or do it with the bastions rules.

There are plenty of options outside of "give full casters more free stuff".

So it is not like martials don't have access to spells without taking feats. They do, but I am all for giving a few spells to those few that don't have it.

You asked for opinions. My answer is that it's unnecessary given the options available.

I have seen Monks take the feat, but most Gish characters want to boost their casting stat.

So let them. That's their choice on how to spend their feat. If weapon mastery was that important to them they would take it.

I really don't think martials should have core unique things WRT weapons that no one else gets. I just think it is kind of off that my Warlock who has a pact weapon, who focuses on that explicitly, can't do the same cool things with it a Fighter or Paladin could do.

You might not think that but you don't speak as a monolith for the player base. We got here because players wanted more for those martial classes. I don't think that should be given to all classes. Just use an existing option.

Full Casters should not get a Weapon Mastery outside of special cases, like subclasses that are more martial.

Even those shouldn't. WotC made those options available already for those who want them.

Bards, should not be Full Casters either.

Yes they should. GG

 

[Horwath]

honestly,

EVERY non martial that gets Extra attack feature from subclass should get a fighting style and one weapon mastery.
either at that level or next available subclass level.
subclass power budged should be worked around that.

 

[Yaarel]

After playing 2024 for a couple months I am thinking about giving full casters each one weapon mastery.

Thoughts?

It is reasonable for a full caster to swap one cantrip for proficiency with one martial weapon, and wield it magically, using their casting ability if they wish instead of Strength or Dexterity.

Oppositely, it is reasonable for a Fighter to swap proficiency with all martial weapons for instead two martial weapons plus one cantrip.


In both cases, the rest of the class features dont really synergize with the swap, but sometimes it is important for the flavor of a character concept.

 

[Horwath]

It is reasonable for a full caster to swap one cantrip for one martial weapon proficiency, and wield it magically, using their casting ability if they wish.

Oppositely, it is reasonable for a Fighter two swap proficiency with all martial weapons for instead two martial weapons plus one cantrip.

magic initiate, origin feat, or I would say a half feat at 4th level
martial weapon proficiency, half feat.

if you remove 1st level spell from magic initiate you could add 2 or 3 more cantrips(number if mostly for flavor after you get your choice of 1 or 2 damage cantrips).

So, ALL martial weapons for, give or take, 5 cantrips.
after a choice of 2 or 3 martial weapons, rest is just gravy. 3 weapons + 2 cantrips = ALL martial weapons

 

[Yaarel]

magic initiate, origin feat, or I would say a half feat at 4th level
martial weapon proficiency, half feat.

if you remove 1st level spell from magic initiate you could add 2 or 3 more cantrips(number if mostly for flavor after you get your choice of 1 or 2 damage cantrips).

So, ALL martial weapons for, give or take, 5 cantrips.
after a choice of 2 or 3 martial weapons, rest is just gravy. 3 weapons + 2 cantrips = ALL martial weapons

Of course, feats can supply cantrips and martial weapons.

I am talking about a simple swap of class features at level 1. 1 martial weapon ≈ 1 cantrip. A good cantrip might be better, but a weapon is easier to optimize around.

 

[FrogReaver]

IMO. It’s a single level dip into fighter for weapon masteries. If caster wants them then giving up a level of caster goodness seems to be a fair trade. IMO. This feels more to be about having cake and eating it to than opening up new character options.

 

[Retros_x]

but something is missing compared to the martials.

10 years everybody complained that martials are lacking options and strength compared to casters, now they get weapon masteries and casters are suddenly missing? They can bend the reality to their will, but thats not enough, they also need to know how to effectively use a rapier? IMO if a character wants to learn how to fight effectively they need to train that, meaning sacrificing time to train as a wizard aka sacrificing a wizard level and dip into fighter. Or sacrifice ASI improvement and take a feat that has the same effect. But there need to be a cost to be proficient in something that is completely out of your normal playing field. If a martial wants to casts spells they also need to do something similar. And I would also object if someone suggest that every martial gets small spellcasting ability as default in exchange for casters getting a weapon mastery.

I think it doesnt make sense from balance/gameplay perspective (martials needed something compared to casters) and it doesn't make sense from a narrative perspective.

 

[Corinnguard]

Full Casters should not get a Weapon Mastery outside of special cases, like subclasses that are more martial.

Like the Bladesinger Wizard who leans just enough into the martial stuff, but no more, to get by as a spellcaster. However, I think this particular subclass would have to get rid of one of its' features in order to get that single weapon mastery. As mastering a single weapon would mean less time learning or preparing a spell per long rest. Now I am curious to see what the 2024 version of this subclass is going to look like when and if it comes out.

My Wizard is proficient in a staff, has the same proficiency bonus to attack rolls, so why can't he learn to use it as well and do the things with it a Fighter or Ranger could do with it?

It might be better for your character to pick up the Magic Initiate (Druid) feat and get the 1st-level Druid spell Shillelagh.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I need a microscope to see the violin.