D&D (2024) No Appendix N Equivalent?

[Maxperson]

~gestures broadly to existing thread~

That's circular reasoning. We say it's a problem, so it's a problem because we said it's a problem.

You have to prove the gatekeeping is with the appendix n, but you can't because One True Wayism isn't present in those and in at least some of them(I haven't checked them all), it encourages reading of other sources outside the list for inspiration.

Or it becomes a weapon to be wielded like a lot of 'traditional' junk from old D&D that's survived purely by dint of tradition and a terrible fandom.

You can't and should not try to legislate that sort of behavior away. You simply get rid of the people who are a problem. Toxic will be toxic no matter what you try to do.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You have to prove the gatekeeping is with the appendix n

Why do I have to prove something that is not and has never been part of my thesis? That I've repeatedly stated is not part of my thesis?

 

[TiQuinn]

You'd also need to do stuff like eliminate linearly scaling HP (or make it so you had like 30 HP at L1 and gained like 1d4 per level), and make a lot of other changes (particularly to combat - massively increasing damage done relative to HP by both sides, for example), you'd probably want to ditch D&D's attributes as it'd be nigh-impossible make them all relevant to such a scenario (and set of classes), and eventually you're left with a system where the only real similarity it has to D&D is you roll a d20 to determine stuff! 5E compatible it ain't!

Maybe? I don’t know that the stuff you’re pointing at there are incompatible with a horror game.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You seem to assuming an Appendix N-type deal for 5E 2024 would merely be a replica of an earlier one.

You mean with my assertion that changes to it would be used as ammunition?

 

[Maxperson]

Why do I have to prove something that is not and has never been part of my thesis? That I've repeatedly stated is not part of my thesis?

Because it is a part of your thesis, since your thesis is that appendix n either has or promotes gatekeeping. The only way it can do either of those things is by being One True Wayist inside the appendix. Absent that, not gatekeeping exists within it and no encouragement of gatekeeping comes from it.

People who abuse the list in an attempt to gatekeep have done so independent of anything within the list or the list itself.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Because it is a part of your thesis

I'm not going to form my arguments around what you perceive them to be.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

People who abuse the list in an attempt to gatekeep have done so independent of anything within the list or the list itself.

This is the key issue. Whether or not Appendix N exists, the same exact people will attempt to gatekeep D&D. Whether or not Appendix N changes, the same exact people will attempt to gatekeep D&D. They're not doing it because of Appendix N, nor because of changes to it, it's merely something that gets used as a weapon, contrary to its intent. And I don't think it's so dangerous a weapon that it needs to be restricted from existing. In fact I'd say in arguments where I've seen people attempt to wield it, it's proven so cumbersome and contradictory as to have actively impaired their attempts to gatekeep!

 

[Parmandur]

It's interesting, I didn't find out about Appendix N until my 30s, butnI did actually read moat of it as a kid in the 90s just by reading everything I could get my hands on in the library...


Reading suggestion lists are neat, but again going back to the 2024 PHB and DMG...there really isn't any room for it.

 

[Maxperson]

This is the key issue. Whether or not Appendix N exists, the same exact people will attempt to gatekeep D&D. Whether or not Appendix N changes, the same exact people will attempt to gatekeep D&D. They're not doing it because of Appendix N, nor because of changes to it, it's merely something that gets used as a weapon, contrary to its intent. And I don't think it's so dangerous a weapon that it needs to be restricted from existing. In fact I'd say in arguments where I've seen people attempt to wield it, it's proven so cumbersome and contradictory as to have actively impaired their attempts to gatekeep!

I don't buy the argument that because a small segment of people will abuse something it should be gotten rid of at all. Hammers, screwdrivers, staplers, steak knives, forks and many more items(almost anything mankind has made) is abused by a small segment of people to harm others in some way, sometimes very seriously. You can't go around getting rid of things that are abused by a small segment of the population.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm not going to form my arguments around what you perceive them to be.

So you are not arguing that appendix n encourages gatekeeping? Because I could swear you said that it did.