Elon Musk Calls for Wizards of the Coast to "Burn in Hell" Over Making of Original D&D Passages

Elon Musk, the owner of the app formerly known as Twitter, is calling on Wizards of the Coast and its parent company Hasbro to "burn in hell" for the publication of Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons. On November 21st, former gaming executive turned culture warrior Mark Hern posted several passages from Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons on Twitter, criticizing the book for providing context about some of the misogyny and cultural insensitivity found in early rulebooks. These passages were pulled from the foreword written by Jason Tondro, a senior designer for the D&D team who also worked extensively on the book. Hern stated that these passages, along with the release of the new 2024 Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide for D&D's "40th anniversary" (it is actually D&D's 50th anniversary) both "erased and slandered" Gary Gygax and other creators of Dungeons & Dragons.

In response, Musk wrote "Nobody, and I mean nobody, gets to trash E. Gary Gygax and the geniuses who created Dungeons & Dragons. What the [naughty word] is wrong with Hasbro and WoTC?? May they burn in hell." Musk had played Dungeons & Dragons at some point in his youth, but it's unclear when the last time he ever played the game.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, gets to trash E. Gary Gygax and the geniuses who created Dungeons & Dragons. What the [xxxx] is wrong with Hasbro and WoTC?? May they burn in hell.

- Elon Musk​

Notably, Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons contains countless correspondences and letters written by both Gygax and Dave Arneson, including annotated copies of early D&D rulesets. Most early D&D rules supplements as well as early Dragon magazines are also found in the book. It seems odd to contain one of the most extensive compliations of Gygax's work an "erasure," but it's unclear whether Hern or Musk actually read the book given the incorrect information about the anniversary.

Additionally, Gygax and Arneson are both credited in the 2024 Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's Guide. The exact credit reads: "Building on the original game created by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson and then developed by many others over the past 50 years." Wizards of the Coast also regularly collaborates with Gygax's youngest son Luke and is a participant at Gary Con, a convention held in Gygax's honor. The opening paragraph of the 2024 Player's Handbook is written by Jeremy Crawford and specifically lauds both Gygax and Arneson for making Dungeons & Dragons and contains an anecdote about Crawford meeting Gygax.

Musk has increasingly leaned into culture war controversies in recent years, usually amplifying misinformation to suit his own political agenda.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Wait, what?

Didn't this whole thing get discussed like... two or three months ago? Ad nauseum? Are we seriously bringing it up again because excrement in the vague shape of a human Elon Musk said something about it months later?

sees thread is 56 pages long

Guess we are.

 

[Steampunkette]

No one is saying everyone thought like Gary. But I grew up in the 80s. I had a lot of relatives Gygax's age. Of them, only one is what I would call a feminist (and she was considered unusual). Now I knew a lot more feminists in my family who were born later than Gygax (people born shortly after WWII for example, people my parents age). In terms of where Gygax resides on this spectrum, I certainly remember folks his age who expressed far worse views. He sounds pretty typical of guys that age from what I remember. That doesn't mean everything he said is great or that they are ideas I agree with. But I don't think it is necessary to build him up as some great villain either

Your anecdotes of the time when you and I were growing up are matched with my anecdotes of the same period and both are equally useless.

The dude got called out for his sexism by people born and raised in the same time period as he was. If that is somehow not enough to defeat the "Product of his Time" line of BS I dunno what to tell you.

It really just seems like no matter what evidence is presented you're just gonna keep saying it's all irrelevant 'cause you grew up surrounded by bigots and got the idea that that was "Normal" and not "Freaking Weird".

I grew up in the 80s in Columbus Georgia. My parents did not tolerate racist family members in GEORGIA in the 80s. In the Buckle of the Bible Belt in the 1980s. On the border between Georgia and Alabama in the 1980s.

Mom was born in 1944. Dad was born in 1952. Grandpa missed -one- Christmas 'cause he said something out of pocket at Thanksgiving and my parents refused to invite him over for Christmas. He cleaned his act up after that, and was (By the Way) old enough to be Gary Gygax's Dad. (Well. Not -really-. He was only 15 when Gygax was born)

I have an aunt and uncle I -barely- remember because they wouldn't moderate themselves around my family and were never invited back for Holidays and were even -turned away- twice on "Surprise Visits".

Guess it's a skill issue and my parents rocked at not being bigots. Go me.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Also, regarding:
View attachment 386993

A more charitable interpretation could be he was cognizant of how that was going to be taken by Women's Lib, but since it was based on Tiamat, a female dragon, he was sticking with it.

Serious question: In the light of the other things, is the most charitable interpretation warranted? If one is always taking the maximally charitable interpretation possible, wouldn't that mean overlooking plenty of actual cases of sexism (or whatever else) because every time, there's some way to finagle out that it was something other than a plain reading.

At some point, even charity needs to relent, surely?

 

[Juxtapozbliss]

The point of Musk commenting on this is not actually to defend Gygax or D&D, it's to defend sexism against being called out.

That's what this whole fight is actually about: protecting the institution of sexism from being torn down via discussion and analysis of it's historical permutations. Whether people incited through the invocation of a beloved figure or hobby know what they're being pushed to do or not.

This. Very much so. And then on top of these smoke and mirrors we see other methods of the right wing debate strategy in this thread. We are being told by the defenders that we must be nuanced and civil and not wrathful. Even though...my goodness, look at the statement that sparked this entire thread. Musk was neither nuanced nor civil and was clearly wrathful. So the right wing gets to spout hatred and incite violence ("burn in hell" is not merely a metaphor, it is a threat and harkens to witch burnings and cross burnings and hangings), but those who find social oppression infuriating have to be diplomatic and friendly. It's part of what allows them to keep moving the goal posts.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

Serious question: In the light of the other things, is the most charitable interpretation warranted? If one is always taking the maximally charitable interpretation possible, wouldn't that mean overlooking plenty of actual cases of sexism (or whatever else) because every time, there's some way to finagle out that it was something other than a plain reading.

At some point, even charity needs to relent, surely?

That's because the charity arguments are never real, the people who say horrible things they agree with deserve infinite charity to say that it wasn't that bad, the people who say good things they don't agree with never get the same.

 

[Vaalingrade]

When is the cutoff for 'their time'? Is Musk himself absolved of everything he says and does because he's a 'product of his time'? Are all the kids saying the n-word in CoD lobbies? At what point is 'the time' the time where people are expected to act like decent human beings?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You can't just say he said something dumb you still have to try to defend him.

That's what confuses me here - why the need to act like these views were normative? Gygax himself clearly knew it wasn't and was proud of himself for that. It's kind of funny because I'm pretty sure that if 1970s (and probably 1980s and maaaybe 1990s too) Gygax were here, he'd be like "No way, I am a sexist, stop trying to say I'm not! Nor am I like other people - I'm clearly smarter!"

A more charitable interpretation could be he was cognizant of how that was going to be taken by Women's Lib, but since it was based on Tiamat, a female dragon, he was sticking with it.

I think that's going a little beyond charitable and into the realms of forcefully applying the maximum positive interpretation to the point where it's unnatural. I mean, we all know people who have said things like that re: feminism, and not a single of them just meant "this might be misinterpreted, but w/e", they all meant "two fingers up to feminism".

Serious question: In the light of the other things, is the most charitable interpretation warranted? If one is always taking the maximally charitable interpretation possible, wouldn't that mean overlooking plenty of actual cases of sexism (or whatever else) because every time, there's some way to finagle out that it was something other than a plain reading.

At some point, even charity needs to relent, surely?

Quite.

Given the 1970s statement about how he was profoundly uncaring about women getting any improvement in their situation, and happy to see them driven out of RPGs/wargames, why would you got with "Turn the Charity-o-meter to 11!"? Plus it's not a plausible read, even being very, very charitable.

 

[Morrus]

Also, folks, snarky notes in post reports wondering when a post is ever going to get modded 3 minutes after it was posted are going to get you the side eye. We're not chained to our desks, and we have not yet perfected time travel. It's 11pm for me right now and I'm busy preparing for bed. Knock off the sarcasm, please. It's not appreciated.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

Ad nauseum

'Nauseam'. Accusative case, first declension.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

Also, folks, snarky notes in post reports wondering when a post is ever going to get modded 3 minutes after it was posted are going to get you the side eye. We're not chained to our desks, and we have not yet perfected time travel. It's 11pm for me right now and I'm busy preparing for bed. Knock off the sarcasm, please. It's not appreciated.

Sorry Russ, hope you get good sleep