D&D General “‘Scantily Clad and Well Proportioned’: Sexism and Gender Stereotyping in the Gaming Worlds of TSR and Dungeons & Dragons.”

[Steampunkette]

On one hand I realize standards can change over the decades. Elvis shaking his hips on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1956 was shocking while today such behavior isn't noteworthy. Unless you're Shakira and then we all just enjoy it. I sometimes wonder if the internet has desensitized a lot of us to sexual imagery. I don't mean me. I'm dead inside. I mean for those of you we might call psychologically healthy.

We're D&D players, MGibster. None of us is psychologically healthy, and 90% of characters we create are a method of processing trauma we're unwilling, or unable, to confront with a therapist.

 

[the Jester]

People declare themselves right and try complain about things other people like.

Well art at least. Always subjective and often offensive.

Either way I'm glad we have the righteous going around telling everyone what acceptable with art. I foresee no problems with this attitude whatsoever.

Is anyone doing that? I have seen a lot of "Enjoy what you like", but not a lot of "you're not allowed to enjoy that".

I love a lot of cheesecakey, even sleazy, art. I miss the naked she-monsters from 1e. But even as I love and miss it, I can ALSO see how it can alienate women and perpetuate harmful stereotypes, and why the game is better for having less of it- and a more equitable amount of beefcake art, while we're at it.

 

[the Jester]

The satanic panic had a lot of facets. Some of those facets were religious groups overreacting and trying to censor art, music, books and games

Those kinds of attempts at censorship both pre- and post-date the Satanic Panic. Look at the moral panic around comic books, for instance- well before the Satanic Panic came along. The SP was much worse (and was far more specific) than that; it ruined lives and put people in prison for things that they didn't do. I'll stand by my opinion that the gulf between the two is vast.

 

[grankless]

Fine's Shared Fantasy is every bit as important as Peterson's work, and highly recommend Ranged Touch's Game Studies Study Buddies episode on the book (as well as episodes 46 and 47, about The Elusive Shift and White's history of The Forge) if you want primers on it.

Otherwise I am deeply deeply disappointed by, but not exactly shocked, the behavior of some of the people on this forum. The amount of blatant defense of sexism on display in these last is downright embarrassing to read. This is the most "average ENWorld user per demographic polls is a white cis man over the age of 40" time period to live in, apparently. Lots of talking over women, lots of outright denial of objective facts and hemming and hawing over strict definitions. Go talk to the woman you love most in your life and read some of the posts that have been made in here to them.

 

[Clint_L]

I love a good scantily clad miniature. But, I am glad that there are practically-dressed minis available as well. And we’re even gradually starting to get more body diversity in minis. Still room for improvement, but I appreciate the scantily clad ones all the more for it being a specific choice I can make, rather than being all that’s available.

More body diversity is slowly happening but not nearly fast enough. I have enough Conan and Barbarella stand-ins to fill a shoebox, but very few adventurers with any meat on their bones. Speaking of Bones, my number 1 request for the last Reaper kickstarter was a visibly pregnant adventurer. Still waiting on those.

 

[Clint_L]

Is anyone doing that? I have seen a lot of "Enjoy what you like", but not a lot of "you're not allowed to enjoy that".

I love a lot of cheesecakey, even sleazy, art. I miss the naked she-monsters from 1e. But even as I love and miss it, I can ALSO see how it can alienate women and perpetuate harmful stereotypes, and why the game is better for having less of it- and a more equitable amount of beefcake art, while we're at it.

I’ve learned from my spouse that it’s not so much the cheesecake as how it’s presented.

 

[Gradine]

We're D&D players, MGibster. None of us is psychologically healthy, and 90% of characters we create are a method of processing trauma we're unwilling, or unable, to confront with a therapist.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Those kinds of attempts at censorship both pre- and post-date the Satanic Panic. Look at the moral panic around comic books, for instance- well before the Satanic Panic came along. The SP was much worse (and was far more specific) than that; it ruined lives and put people in prison for things that they didn't do. I'll stand by my opinion that the gulf between the two is vast.

I am not saying there weren’t other moral panics that led to censorship. But I don’t think you can use the greater evils that arise during moral panics (I.e. matters if life and death) to dismiss the lesser evils that arise during them (I.e. matters of free expression). The SP did ruin lives but it was a much bigger cultural phenomenon than focus on ideas of ritual sexual abuse. It also included widespread efforts to censor, including efforts to shut down D&D. I was in the midst of a very religious community when the satanic panic was unfolding and saw it first hand

 

[grankless]

I am not saying there weren’t other moral panics that led to censorship. But I don’t think you can use the greater evils that arise during moral panics (I.e. matters if life and death) to dismiss the lesser evils that arise during them (I.e. matters of free expression). The SP did ruin lives but it was a much bigger cultural phenomenon than focus on ideas of ritual sexual abuse. It also included widespread efforts to censor, including efforts to shut down D&D. I was in the midst of a very religious community when the satanic panic was unfolding and saw it first hand

And what does this have to do with art that treats the feminine body as something to be ogled at and to be titillated by?

 

[Charlaquin]

I am not saying there weren’t other moral panics that led to censorship. But I don’t think you can use the greater evils that arise during moral panics (I.e. matters if life and death) to dismiss the lesser evils that arise during them (I.e. matters of free expression). The SP did ruin lives but it was a much bigger cultural phenomenon than focus on ideas of ritual sexual abuse. It also included widespread efforts to censor, including efforts to shut down D&D. I was in the midst of a very religious community when the satanic panic was unfolding and saw it first hand

I think the more relevant distinction is that the satanic panic was founded on misinformation. There was no Devil-worshiping cabal using subliminal messaging in popular media to corrupt the youth, so any and all attempts to censor these alleged corrupting influences were fruitless from the start. The objectifying way in which women have overwhelmingly been depicted in fantasy art was genuinely making women uncomfortable within fantasy roleplaying communities, and the shift in the way women are depicted in fantasy art has led to a lot more women getting involved in fantasy roleplaying.