D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[Oofta]

Do we really need yet another thread sidetracked onto new-edition-or-not wars? Can't we just create a separate thread for that if you want to discuss it? I came here to see if there's any updates for things related to the new MM and related like the new Sprite stat block pages ago.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Lore changes don’t matter to me. I like having more options, so at my table, I can always pick between what I like most.

If the designers aren’t allowed to change the lore, then why bother?

Because for decades they were telling a story through the lore. Lore changes do matter to me. Agree to disagree. I don't see the lore of the worlds of D&D as presented from 1e or before to a few years ago (when WotC announced they no longer care about it as anything but an idea mine) as any different conceptually from a franchise like Star Wars or Star Trek. They were telling a story through the lore and then gave up.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Don't generally? 5E has made a habit of it!

My point.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Because for decades they were telling a story through the lore. Lore changes do matter to me. Agree to disagree. I don't see the lore of the worlds of D&D as presented from 1e or before to a few years ago (when WotC announced they no longer care about it as anything but an idea mine) as any different conceptually from a franchise like Star Wars or Star Trek. They were telling a story through the lore and then gave up.

The difference is (besides SW and ST actually having some amazing stories whereas D&D lore is mediocre at best) that they are created for different purposes. The purpose of game lore is to support the game, via which you create your own stories, not to be passively consumed in itself. Existence of immutable canon is impossible in such context from the get go, as the real stories are those which happen in countless unconnected gaming tables.

 

[Bae'zel]

The difference is (besides SW and ST actually having some amazing stories whereas D&D lore is mediocre at best) that they are created for different purposes. The purpose of game lore is to support the game, via which you create your own stories, not to be passively consumed in itself. Existence of immutable canon is impossible in such context from the get go, as the real stories are those which happen in countless unconnected gaming tables.

Yeah to me there’s a difference with lore in terms of passive entertainment (Eg established tv, comic, novel and movie franchises) vs lore for the tabletop roleplaying hobby where it is assumed that players make their own stories.

“But wait, what about RPGs for franchises like Avatar, Star Trek or Star Wars?” Again, you’re only entertaining yourselves, not millions of paid customers (unless you’re critical role or something).

For D&D, you can be selective of which version of the lore you want. For example, I use AD&D era Falkovnia, not the newest. Star Wars, you can ignore everything from the Phantom Menace onwards and stick with the Expanded Universe, right?

 

[SkidAce]

Because for decades they were telling a story through the lore. Lore changes do matter to me. Agree to disagree. I don't see the lore of the worlds of D&D as presented from 1e or before to a few years ago (when WotC announced they no longer care about it as anything but an idea mine) as any different conceptually from a franchise like Star Wars or Star Trek. They were telling a story through the lore and then gave up.

I never realized you looked at it like that. I enjoy some lore, but I am fully in the "D&D is a toolkit" camp.

My list of "lore" changes would probably knock you prone, lol.

 

[DEFCON 1]

WotC does not care where any one person's singular line is on good change - good change - good change - good change - good change - TOO FAR! - TOO FAR! - TOO FAR!

Hopefully nobody out there honestly thinks that their own personal opinion should matter to anyone other than themselves.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The difference is (besides SW and ST actually having some amazing stories whereas D&D lore is mediocre at best) that they are created for different purposes. The purpose of game lore is to support the game, via which you create your own stories, not to be passively consumed in itself. Existence of immutable canon is impossible in such context from the get go, as the real stories are those which happen in countless unconnected gaming tables.

That's not how I consumed it when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s. I read all the novels, scoured the gamebooks for more setting info, got excited when a new development or setting detail was added to the existing world, just like I did (and still do) with all my favorite franchises. As a game I ran my own world and used that stuff piecemeal as I saw fit, but as a story it was the setting of D&D, a story that was told in many places and expanded over decades of work. And then a few years ago it all just stopped and they told me it didn't matter.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I never realized you looked at it like that. I enjoy some lore, but I am fully in the "D&D is a toolkit" camp.

My list of "lore" changes would probably knock you prone, lol.

I don't run D&D settings. I consume them like the fiction they were presented as (or at least I did).

 

[Micah Sweet]

WotC does not care where any one person's singular line is on good change - good change - good change - good change - good change - TOO FAR! - TOO FAR! - TOO FAR!

Hopefully nobody out there honestly thinks that their own personal opinion should matter to anyone other than themselves.

Yes, and that sentiment applies just as much to the folks here who love all the recent changes as they do to me. Their personal opinions don't matter to anyone other than themselves either.