Did the nerds win?

[delericho]

Still, I think this really touches on some of the things that make people see different fan bases as “toxic”.

Time was, I found the word "toxic" to be a useful way for people to call out some truly reprehensible behaviours. Unfortunately, it has now become such a scattershot that these days I assume that if someone uses it in reference to another person it is them that is engaged in bullying - it's become code for "I don't agree with you but I don't have a counter argument, so I'll just brand you a bad person."

The worst thing about that being that those reprehensible behaviours that were being called out haven't stopped, or even become any less prevalent. But the way of calling them out has been declawed by misuse.

 

[schneeland]

No. Geek media has been appropriated by the mainstream. All our base belong to them now.

Mostly that. Though admittedly, it seems like there's a subset of people you could label "cool nerds", which do have wider recognition now and whose nerdy hobbies are seen with more benevolence. But I don't get the feeling that the social standing of the "classic nerd" has improved that much.

 

[Bohandas]

Geek media was watered down to make it palatable to the masses.

Also, meatheads and bullies are making a big comeback

 

[trappedslider]

On the other hand, Felicia Day says we won, so I guess we did.

 

[R_J_K75]

in the 2010s it looked like Sheldon in "Big Bang Theory."

I doubt anyone ever thought of Sheldon as cool

 

[Ruin Explorer]

for many, the complexity wasn't just a barrier, but it was the actual point of whatever hobby

I mean, do "many" really think that about, say 3.XE vs 5E? I feel like that's not the case. Indeed I've seen a lot of very long-term D&D fans, people in their 40s and 50s and even 60s here argue the exact opposite.

Similarly with Marvel's continuity snarls, did "many" comics readers think overcomplicated family trees was "the actual point" of comics, particularly the X-Men? Again, I don't think "many" did.

But did a subset of people involved? Yes. The trouble is, I think those people, for the most part, weren't representative and in many ways didn't even understand the games/media they were "nerds" about. Instead they fetishized certain superficial elements of it, like the complexity you're describing. This fetishization of superficial elements leads to some kinda cargo-cult ideas about media, games, etc. at times.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I doubt anyone ever thought of Sheldon as cool

Indeed. Big Bang Theory is a pure-outsider (i.e. non-nerd) appropriation of and manipulation of nerd/geek culture, and is extremely superficial in its understanding thereof, and relied on stereotypes that were aimed solidly at Gen X contempt for nerds. It's actually quite hostile to nerds and neurodiverse people. It's very different to shows which genuinely love this stuff like Community.

 

[R_J_K75]

It's very different to shows which genuinely love this stuff like Community.

I thought the 2 Community episodes where they played D&D were pretty good. BBT was pretty hard to watch at times and even when I did it was more on in the background rather than me genuinely liking it. It does seem odd to me how mainstream RPGs have become

 

[Staffan]

I mean, do "many" really think that about, say 3.XE vs 5E? I feel like that's not the case. Indeed I've seen a lot of very long-term D&D fans, people in their 40s and 50s and even 60s here argue the exact opposite.

Similarly with Marvel's continuity snarls, did "many" comics readers think overcomplicated family trees was "the actual point" of comics, particularly the X-Men? Again, I don't think "many" did.

But did a subset of people involved? Yes. The trouble is, I think those people, for the most part, weren't representative and in many ways didn't even understand the games/media they were "nerds" about. Instead they fetishized certain superficial elements of it, like the complexity you're describing.

In absolute terms, I think "many" is the right term. I don't know if it's right in relative terms, but certainly a significant chunk. In particular, there's the reward element of feeling really clever when your investment "pays off" by letting you figure out mysteries before they're actually revealed (like John Snow's actual parentage). And of course there's the element of survivorship bias: those who didn't like that stuff were less likely to become fans to begin with.

Of course, in both cases with expanding mass market appeal, those voices are getting drowned out. And there's a fine line to walk between keeping things accessible to new people on one hand, and excessive fanservice on the other, and I can't really blame creators for erring in favor of the former (particularly since that seems to be where the dollars are).

 

[Stormonu]

They will never be one of us.

Honestly, it does not feel like "we" won. More and more it feels like the things we cherished have been taken away, remade and given to everybody else. Yes, a lot of things that were hard to get your hands on not too long ago now flood the market. At the same time, the new stuff isn't what I'd touch with a ten-foot pole.

More and more, I feel left out and old. And I just want to go back to the '80s and stay there.