D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[SkidAce]

They may not think to... but it is also a dog. This is like saying that a DM might not play a Priest as being knowledgeable about religion and sacred artifacts because they don't have an ability called "Sacred Knowledge". Some things are just inherent in the very idea of the thing.



Maybe. Would be interesting at least.

I agree. However the dog was just an example.

If Dnd removes the "charge" attack from a "dinorhino" only those who used this madeup critter in the past would know the extra horn damage was from charging.

Simple example, my point is merely that we lose the potential of "something" if we remove inherent traits and replace them with numbers. That's all.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The changing of official lore means next to nothing for any campaign. If there is a lore change that a gaming group doesn't like, they already have their established lore that they can and should stick with. Your campaign history is what you want it to be. It does not affect any table outside of the unreasonable expectation that lore never changes.

The old books with older lore are still available if desired, like on DM's Guild if you don't already have your own copies.

For example, my D&D campaign setting does not have Slaad. Like at all. An epic PC was able to erase them out of existence (which was pretty awesome). Changes in slaad lore do not mean they appear in my campaign.

Another example, "Gruumsh" isn't a thing in my world. My world has 2 types of orcs, even before the 2024 rules changed them. One are the pig-faced monstrous orcs, and the other are the "hotter" orcs, that the 2024 book better represents. They each have their own origin (transplanar in nature), but use the same stats. They differ in culture and society.

This is a fine attitude, but it does only take you so far.

I love using Devils (not as much demons) and I've been tweaking their lore for a while now... but literally every source on them for decades of material is about the Blood War or ties to the Blood War. And when you get to a point where every resource is following the same lore that you don't use... then those are no longer resources and you start stagnating because there is nothing to pull on.

I'm not disagreeing with your idea, or saying that you can't use your own lore, but as someone whose tables change regularly and has been working on their own lore... it really does just start becoming such a huge burden to attempt that it makes it harder and harder to justify.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I agree. However the dog was just an example.

If Dnd removes the "charge" attack from a "dinorhino" only those who used this madeup critter in the past would know the extra horn damage was from charging.

Simple example, my point is merely that we lose the potential of "something" if we remove inherent traits and replace them with numbers. That's all.

You might lose something, but that depends.

The Warhorse did lose their "Trampling Charge" ability... but it was worked into their attack. So did they really lose it? No, it was just repackaged.

The Blink Dog lost something that stated "Keen Senses" but they have expertise in Perception, which should tell us something. And if you are dealing with something you've never heard of before... the book should provide a lore section and possibly even an image. Remember, the statblock is only part of the story of a monster manual. You may not know why a Dahan has expertise in the Nature skill, but when you read their lore and see they have a long history of spirit-speaking and compacts with nature spirits... then it makes sense.

So, are we losing things, or are they being repackaged?

 

[SkidAce]

You might lose something, but that depends.

The Warhorse did lose their "Trampling Charge" ability... but it was worked into their attack. So did they really lose it? No, it was just repackaged.

The Blink Dog lost something that stated "Keen Senses" but they have expertise in Perception, which should tell us something. And if you are dealing with something you've never heard of before... the book should provide a lore section and possibly even an image. Remember, the statblock is only part of the story of a monster manual. You may not know why a Dahan has expertise in the Nature skill, but when you read their lore and see they have a long history of spirit-speaking and compacts with nature spirits... then it makes sense.

So, are we losing things, or are they being repackaged?

Yes, my hope is things like that are included in the description.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But all those things--adding the Blood War, changing monster origins, heck, even something as minor as deciding that it's official canon that orcs worship Gruumsh--change history. They change the way the whatever it is was originally presented, and it changes the way that people use them in their home games.

For Ravenloft, we already know that the world is mutable, that domains come and go, that even most of what people think of as history is false. The only difference between VRGtR and, say, the big upheaval they did in the middle of 2e is that they didn't do a series of adventures leading up to it. Or when they decided to kill or trap Van Richten in the Bleak House adventure. Those things affected every single table who played Ravenloft even if they didn't buy the adventures, because every subsequent sourcebook dealt with them.

Or the Faction War in Planescape. Twenty-five years later and I still hear people talking about how much it wrecked the setting.

This is why meta-plots can be a very bad thing, and why I don't care if they're ignored in new books.

And sure, that might not matter for you--so go write your own sourcebooks that ignore them. Or fanfic.

Changing history means previous events could not have happened in light of the new information, or a radical change is made without explanation or any indication that the previous material is still valid. None of those things happened prior to VRGtR, so they are simply not as big a deal to me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So if you want to prove they aren't nonsensical, you would need to prove that their empires and coding as legionaire forces came afterwards. Good luck and I look forward to your findings.

I'll let you know.

 

[mamba]

If a dragon wants to forego biting to claw the heck out of a target, or to make multiple quick bites, I don't see why not.

agreed, making it not strictly two claws, one bite would be fine, I’d still prefer a distinction between the two when it comes to the effect however

 

[Oofta]

OK, here are the comparisons from Scions of Elemental evil.

2014
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2024
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That is it folks (this post and my previous post form the Uni statblocks), despite what the previous video posted that is all of the officially release 1-1 comparisons of 2014 to 2024 statblocks. We have also seen previews of the Ancient Green Dragon, Kuo-Toa and Skeletons, but they have not been officially release so I am not including them here.


So @Oofta, what are your thoughts?!

I think I've been busy.


Kind of surprised they only moved the Berserker's trait into the attack and didn't change any other stats and cultist lost their advantage. Guess they still matched the targets close enough not to change.

Not sure about magical weapons not getting around the resistances with the Fire Elemental, seems like an unnecessary nerf to martial characters. Although I suppose a lot of spells do acid, cold or fire. Then we get the gray ooze, which no longer damages non magical weapons. Guess they're really doubling down on not needing magic items.

Incubus and Succubus are now just different forms of the same creature? Interesting, I guess it makes sense since they're fiends. It also gives us a reason to have two different entries now instead of them just being mirror images with a different sex. I can now see an Incubus being a real pain if it just focuses on hit-and-run tactics to stop short rests, especially since it can also enter dreams to stop a long rest.

Knight gets 2 attacks whether melee or ranged but other than that unchanged, while ogre is exactly the same. But ogres already were pretty nasty for their CR.

I think overall simplification is a good idea, even for things like the green dragon where it just now has rend. Yes, we don't distinguish between a poisonous bite and the claws, but does it really matter unless reach matters? It's certainly easier to run when you don't have to worry about which body part it's attacking with even if it does reduce flavor a bit.

I suspect the bigger changes we'll see like what we have with the adult green dragon where there's more design space and they needed beefing up. Seems like they're relatively happy with low level monsters.

 

[abirdcall]

I think I've been busy.


Kind of surprised they only moved the Berserker's trait into the attack and didn't change any other stats and cultist lost their advantage. Guess they still matched the targets close enough not to change.

Not sure about magical weapons not getting around the resistances with the Fire Elemental, seems like an unnecessary nerf to martial characters. Although I suppose a lot of spells do acid, cold or fire. Then we get the gray ooze, which no longer damages non magical weapons. Guess they're really doubling down on not needing magic items.

Incubus and Succubus are now just different forms of the same creature? Interesting, I guess it makes sense since they're fiends. It also gives us a reason to have two different entries now instead of them just being mirror images with a different sex. I can now see an Incubus being a real pain if it just focuses on hit-and-run tactics to stop short rests, especially since it can also enter dreams to stop a long rest.

Knight gets 2 attacks whether melee or ranged but other than that unchanged, while ogre is exactly the same. But ogres already were pretty nasty for their CR.

I think overall simplification is a good idea, even for things like the green dragon where it just now has rend. Yes, we don't distinguish between a poisonous bite and the claws, but does it really matter unless reach matters? It's certainly easier to run when you don't have to worry about which body part it's attacking with even if it does reduce flavor a bit.

I suspect the bigger changes we'll see like what we have with the adult green dragon where there's more design space and they needed beefing up. Seems like they're relatively happy with low level monsters.

Re: Fire Elemental

With the introduction of common magic weapons it makes sense to do away with resistance to non-magical weapons.

I am happy to see that they have kept those resistances for creatures with magical forms. It is good for some characters to do better in some encounters than others or require those other characters to come up with solutions.

I'm hoping the resistance to B/P/S is kept to mostly creatures that don't have solid forms.

I am very happy that they now have a vulnerability to cold. Not enough monsters had vulnerabilities in 2014.

 

[dave2008]

And that last line is the balancing act. Sure, doubling the size of a boss monster's statblock might give it all the options if could desire... but then would crowd out other things in the book, and become unwieldy and hard to use. There was mention from @dave2008 that not all DMs are skilled enough to improvise attacks and effects, but I will also say not all new DMs are skilled enough to handle a statblock with two dozen different widgets to keep track of.

That is true, but I do think an end game type boss monster is one of the places you could accept more complexity and assume some a higher level of DM mastery. I mean we have had claw/claw/bite for about 5 decades and DMs have made it work!