D&D General Should the DM roll in the open?

[GMMichael]

Honest question: if the “GM isn’t really sure” and then decides to roll the dice to let the dice determine the outcome but then “fudges” b/c the result doesn’t please them…. Doesn’t that really mean they were sure?

Not always. Sometimes people need a nudge to be able to make a decision.

I suspect that most of us who prefer to roll in the open when possible still hide SOME of our rolls. Such as when enemies are trying to sneak up on the party...

Fun fact: there's no need to hide stealth rolls for NPCs. The result of the roll determines how much sneaking the NPCs did, not whether the PCs noticed them. If it's possible that the PCs never notice the NPCs, you're 1) telling the PCs something via metagame by rolling, and 2) wasting your time on a non-encounter.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Fun fact: there's no need to hide stealth rolls for NPCs. The result of the roll determines how much sneaking the NPCs did, not whether the PCs noticed them. If it's possible that the PCs never notice the NPCs, you're 1) telling the PCs something via metagame by rolling, and 2) wasting your time on a non-encounter.

No, there absolutely is. Sneaking enemies don't always engage the party right away if at all. Take the case of a goblin scout who observes the PCs, then creeps away to bring reinforcements.

In games I run, the party CAN and occasionally does stop such things.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Honest question: if the “GM isn’t really sure” and then decides to roll the dice to let the dice determine the outcome but then “fudges” b/c the result doesn’t please them…. Doesn’t that really mean they were sure?

Honest question: if the “GM isn’t really sure” and then decides to roll the dice to let the dice determine the outcome but then “fudges” b/c the result doesn’t please them…. Doesn’t that really mean they were sure?

Probably not before they rolled the dice. There's a common thing where someone who's indecisive rolls dice, and by their reaction to the roll lets them decide. In my younger days, I know a fellow who kept a D20 in his pocket for just that reason.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

No, there absolutely is. Sneaking enemies don't always engage the party right away if at all. Take the case of a goblin scout who observes the PCs, then creeps away to bring reinforcements.

In games I run, the party CAN and occasionally does stop such things.

How we handle it:

Only roll the opposed Dex(Stealth) vs PC Wis(Perception) when there is a possibility of the enemies engaging - either in combat or in eavesdropping at close range. Otherwise, no point in rolling as there is no consequence for failure.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I suspect that most of us who prefer to roll in the open when possible still hide SOME of our rolls. Such as when enemies are trying to sneak up on the party...

Some folks don't, and I understand their explanation of why, but opposed hiding/deception rolls are the one exception I make.

 

[GMMichael]

No, there absolutely is. Sneaking enemies don't always engage the party right away if at all. Take the case of a goblin scout who observes the PCs, then creeps away to bring reinforcements.

In games I run, the party CAN and occasionally does stop such things.

Okay, a goblin sees the heroes and then sneaks away to summon reinforcements. As soon as you roll to see how stealthy the goblin is, you're more or less telling the PCs that there's something there that concerns them. They know there's something to find, so they might as well find something. What's the point in telling PCs that there's something to find (by rolling behind the screen) if you're not going to let them find it? Why should a stealth check do the opposite of what it's supposed to do - let the PCs know that something is amiss?

A good check on the part of the goblin might be a rustling that PCs heard as it was leaving. A poor check could be failing to use enough concealment and being spotted by a PC. If the goblin can leave without a trace, no roll is necessary, and should not be made.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Or - and this is my preference - just neutrally let it play out to whatever possibly-disastrous conclusion it may. If you've made it too hard, IME adventuring parties are incredibly resilient things (individual characters maybe not so much) and thus a TPK is very unlikely; while if you've made it too easy then let 'em have their curb-stompin' moment and carry on.

Sorry, but damned if I'm going to kill off someone's PC because I screwed up. Not doing that sort of thing is one of the obligations that go with the job as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Probably not before they rolled the dice. There's a common thing where someone who's indecisive rolls dice, and by their reaction to the roll lets them decide. In my younger days, I know a fellow who kept a D20 in his pocket for just that reason.

Ok but… why should an DM overrule the dice after rolling if they weren’t sure before rolling? The act of rolling suddenly makes a DM sure of the outcome they don’t want? I’m not trying to be deliberately opaque here - I just wonder why a DM wouldn’t think about possible outcomes first then decide if a roll is appropriate. After a few seconds of consideration, if failure is not an option, just give the PCs the auto-success and move on.

 

[soviet]

Stealth v Perception checks are an issue. I have rolled in secret for this kind of stuff before, although I don't like it.

One way round it is what I call the deferred conflict. There's a magical silent alarm at the doorway to the temple, which if triggered means a guardian spirit is now waiting for them in the main hall. Did the players trigger it or not? Well, if it's a silent alarm, and so they wouldn't know they triggered it, you can make the Stealth check after the fact, when they enter the main hall. 'Guys, there was a magical silent alarm back there, make a Stealth check'.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Doesn't the very act of you suddenly rolling in secret give it away to the players, though, that something's going on and their characters need to be on their guard more than they otherwise might be?

Not if you do it for both ends. Then its just another random die roll that probably relates to something, but who knows what?