D&D General The New York Times on D&D

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If people still want to pretend to kill people because of what they look like, WotC isn't going to stop anyone.

It's a weird thing to publicly admit to being mad about, though.

 

[billd91]

If Kill Dr. Lucky didn't make Paizo a household name I don't think anything will. I tend to think of the TTRPG world as being rather niche in and of itself with D&D being one of the few games to attain mainstream recognition. If I were to tell my coworkers I was playing Pathfinder this weekend they'd have no idea what I was going on about. If I told them I was playing D&D they'd know what a big nerd I was.

Mainstream recognition here is irrelevant. Paizo, Kobold Press, Critical Role - all are far from niche within the RPG space. That’s the world we’re looking at here with Remathilis’s statement. I knew people were going to misconstrue that, some I think intentionally.

 

[MGibster]

If people still want to pretend to kill people because of what they look like, WotC isn't going to stop anyone.

I don't know if that was ever a thing even in old school AD&D. The likes of orcs, goblins, and ogres were fair game because in most settings they had a habit of attacking people who were just trying to live their lives.

I knew people were going to misconstrue that, some I think intentionally.

At least have the guts to be direct with your accusations.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I don't know if that was ever a thing even in old school AD&D. The likes of orcs, goblins, and ogres were fair game because in most settings they had a habit of attacking people who were just trying to live their lives.

That's the funny thing about all of this: If you want to keep on killing orcs, just make them do something problematic beyond just being orcs. It's a really, really simple fix to a non-problem.

 

[Clint_L]

If you still want your orcs to be inherently evil, there’s nothing stopping you. You can do whatever you want. All that’s changed is that the rules don’t assume orcs are inherently evil.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

On the contrary Remethalis

I do? What a bizarre comment. Of course they’re niche compared to wotc.

There’s something naive in the comments here that just assumes everyone agrees with them.

By a host of metrics, notably including sales, Paizo for example holds the second largest share of the TTRPG market after D&D. To claim or pretend otherwise is simply incorrect.

 

[Remathilis]

On the contrary Remethalis.

Remathilis. I know it's a made up word but it's right in the post you quoted Leaksadefansaty.

And in the RPG space, they are big enough that any large controversy would have registered. The NYT might not have covered it, but Enworld would have.

 

[Bedrockgames]

That's the funny thing about all of this: If you want to keep on killing orcs, just make them do something problematic beyond just being orcs. It's a really, really simple fix to a non-problem.

As I have said many times, I generally prefer settings where orcs have varied cultures and varied individual personalities (I tend to like my orcs warlike, but usually that is just a culturally feature shared due to history more than anything else). That said, I think it is unfair to say people just want to kill stuff because they look different. What people want essentially two things here (and sometimes they cross over). One they want to blow off steam killing monsters, and orcs are great monsters. Basically they want something like Gauntlet. I don't think there is anything nefarious about that, as it is a game and a fantasy setting. The other thing they want is they want a world populated with sinister and savage beings like orcs. The more you strip that out of a setting, the more it loses a lot of that sword and sorcery atmosphere. So while I usually do have more varied orcs in my own campaigns, I totally understand why a lot of people like the evil orc trope, I like it myself on occasion, and I don't think it really reflects anything about their real world morality

 

[Remathilis]

As I have said many times, I generally prefer settings where orcs have varied cultures and varied individual personalities (I tend to like my orcs warlike, but usually that is just a culturally feature shared due to history more than anything else). That said, I think it is unfair to say people just want to kill stuff because they look different. What people want essentially two things here (and sometimes they cross over). One they want to blow off steam killing monsters, and orcs are great monsters. Basically they want something like Gauntlet. I don't think there is anything nefarious about that, as it is a game and a fantasy setting. The other thing they want is they want a world populated with sinister and savage beings like orcs. The more you strip that out of a setting, the more it loses a lot of that sword and sorcery atmosphere. So while I usually do have more varied orcs in my own campaigns, I totally understand why a lot of people like the evil orc trope, I like it myself on occasion, and I don't think it really reflects anything about their real world morality

Careful, I got criticized for comparing OS play to Gauntlet.

That said, most D&D players prefer a little more nuance than different colored mooks. And that's where issues arise.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Careful, I got criticized for comparing OS play to Gauntlet.

I am just using it as a shorthand example. I am not saying it’s as limited in scope as a mid-80s arcade game. But I think this makes a good example to help explain the kick down the door and kill some orca style of campaign (admittedly Gauntlet may be a pretty dated reference at this point)

That said, most D&D players prefer a little more nuance than different colored mooks. And that's where issues arise.

I am not sure it is most, but I take your point. I think the issue is D&D has long catered to both styles of play. So that is often where changes like this can introduce issues. Even in campaigns where you have more nuance, there is often that gauntlet like atmosphere once they are in the bad guys lair kicking butt

My point is while I personal tend to prefer settings with more nuance, I don’t think it’s inherently superior. There are perfectly valid reasons to want an evening of killing monsters