D&D General The New York Times on D&D

[AlViking]

Kindred would have been a reasonable choice. Doesn’t need to be strictly biological nor strict and rigorous in a scientific sense.

But unless you're redefining the word kindred means closely related family.

 

[Remathilis]

I'm glad that 5.5E has moved on from Race for all of the well articulated reasons that other have stated. I do have a bone to pick with Species though and it is mostly a "scientific" one.

With the caveat that there are certainly blurry lines/edge cases in biology - the simplest definition of Species is that "two members of the same species can mate and produce fertile offspring". This is why Horses and Donkeys are not considered the same species as Mules are sterile (well 99.9% sterile).

As far as we know, every Species in the Handbook is capable of mating with, and producing fertile offspring, with every other species which would make them the same Species by our modern understanding. This is why there is an ongoing disagreement in many circles whether Humans and Neanderthals are different species or whether they should be classified as different subspecies (there is strong evidence of Neanderthal genes in modern humans which suggest successful interbreeding at one point - a really interesting scholarly debate IMO).

Now, of course things get tricky when it comes to a world with magic and Species essentially being created by Gods on most worlds which makes using our scientific terms a dubious proposition. But that was true of Race as well. Since, IMO, both can lead to some crappy places regarding real world bigotry I would have preferred something akin to Lineage or Ancestry. But ultimately those would not be perfect either (as others have shown) and I do think Species is a step forward.

To be fair, some species can produce hybrid offspring, like ligers and several types of plants. And yes, magic makes everything more dubious (I mean, D&D is a world where demons, angels, vampires, dragons and gods can all produce hybrid offspring, the dwarf/elf crossbreed seems quaint).

But I think species is the best choice, even if its not a perfect one.

 

[Remathilis]

But unless you're redefining the word kindred means closely related family.

Ancestry and lineage have the same problem. Partially, it's because humanity has never had to separate itself from other beings that are like us (only animals, which that word works quite well for separation). So all terms to separate sentient beings are words used to separate groups of humans. By family, by nationality, by physicality, or by culture.

 

[Bedrockgames]

You are correct that no word couldn't be used to "other" another group. Maybe when we make contact with aliens, we'll think of a better word. Then again, I don't think we'll ever be free of division across different groups of humans, so any word we create will inevitably be tainted by people who want to use it for evil.

I don't think species is as modernistic as people here think. Its roots are ancient Latin and its use in English dates back to the 14th century. If it's anachronistic because it's not medieval, so are a lot of words in D&D like rapier and galleon.

I'd be interested in the etymology. I was talking more about how it sounds to people than its real world history (though I am pretty sure species was about logical categories in the 14th century and not creatures, but I could be wrong)

 

[billd91]

But unless you're redefining the word kindred means closely related family.

Or of a similar nature. That would fit the bill quite well.

 

[Bedrockgames]

But unless you're redefining the word kindred means closely related family.

Little known fact, the song Mama Kin is about the fantastical creatures in Steven Tylers D&D campaign

 

[Bedrockgames]

You are correct that no word couldn't be used to "other" another group. Maybe when we make contact with aliens, we'll think of a better word. Then again, I don't think we'll ever be free of division across different groups of humans, so any word we create will inevitably be tainted by people who want to use it for evil.

And my point wasn't we shouldn't use these words, just that fretting over their use with fictional beings is probably endlessly fraught and a bit pointless

 

[TiQuinn]

Or of a similar nature. That would fit the bill quite well.

There’s just no one perfect word or word that doesn’t carry different connotations because definitions just aren’t that precise in many cases. But I do think kind/kindred “feels” right to me for a fantasy game.

 

[MGibster]

I think we are being willfully blind if we don't recognize that using the term species to describe people will not rise up and haunt us someday.

These kind of changes aren't really a one and done kind of thing. We're constantly interpreting and reinterpreting the world around us and can expect changes to continue. Are those changes good, bad, silly? Yes. Language changes. What's acceptable changes. What's unacceptable changes. This is just how cultures work.

 

[mamba]

These kind of changes aren't really a one and done kind of thing. We're constantly interpreting and reinterpreting the world around us and can expect changes to continue.

it took them 50 years to make the change, if they need next change takes another 50 then it is a one and done for most individuals