Dragonbane general thread

[aramis erak]

did a bit of programmatic analysis...
with "a" having skill 7, and "b" having 17...
HW a= 42 b= 312 t= 7 both f= 39
LW a= 112 b= 242 t= 7 both f= 39
Note that high wins vs low wins is a significant change.
Low wins means low will win roughly 1/4 of the time, instead of 1/10th, given the 7 vs 17.
lets see an 8 vs 13
HW a= 84 b= 224 t= 8 f= 84
LW a= 124 b= 184 t= 8 f= 84
That's still pretty profound.
While the game doesn't permit ties (the active wins ties), by checking them separately, the program becomes active agnostic.

## low = [1,2,3,4,5, 6, 7, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
## high = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,0,0,0]
low = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
high = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
na = 0 ## high wins
nb = 0
nt = 0
oa = 0 ## low wins
ob = 0
nf = 0
for a in low:
    for b in high:
        if (a > 0) and (b > 0):
            if a > b:
                ob += 1
                na += 1
            elif b > a:
                oa += 1
                nb += 1
            else:
                nt += 1
        elif a > 0:
            na += 1
            oa += 1
        elif b > 0:
            nb += 1
            ob += 1
        else:
            nf += 1
print ("HW\ta=",na,"\tb=",nb,"\tt=",nt,"\tf=",nf)
print ("LW\ta=",oa,"\tb=",ob,"\tt=",nt,"\tf=",nf)

 

[Aldarc]

Yes, the CON condition is the only attribute condition that gives you banes on CON rolls, but that's not the only source of banes for your rolls. Any other relevant circumstance can also give you a bane on relevant rolls. The GM is free to impose banes and grant boons based on circumstances.

Which is still pretty brutal. It hasn't come up in any of my games; however, I have seen some players screwed in Actual Plays when suddenly they are having to make Death Rolls but having banes to their CON rolls as a result of the Sickly condition from one of their earlier pushed rolls.

 

[dbm]

I like the conditions system based on a read through. It gives a different take on attrition without being just depleted hit points or spell slots. One of the limitations of Savage Worlds is that there aren’t many tools for attrition over the course of a game arc. One of the options is Fatigue but even a -1 penalty is so punishing in SWADE that it is either a short term fatigue which the party just rest away, or a long term fatigues which cripples them for the rest of the adventure. The Dragonbane conditions seem like a good mid point in between these extremes, while avoiding HP bloat.

 

[Wolfpack48]

did a bit of programmatic analysis...
with "a" having skill 7, and "b" having 17...
HW a= 42 b= 312 t= 7 both f= 39
LW a= 112 b= 242 t= 7 both f= 39
Note that high wins vs low wins is a significant change.
Low wins means low will win roughly 1/4 of the time, instead of 1/10th, given the 7 vs 17.
lets see an 8 vs 13
HW a= 84 b= 224 t= 8 f= 84
LW a= 124 b= 184 t= 8 f= 84
That's still pretty profound.
While the game doesn't permit ties (the active wins ties), by checking them separately, the program becomes active agnostic.

## low = [1,2,3,4,5, 6, 7, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
## high = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,0,0,0]
low = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
high = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
na = 0 ## high wins
nb = 0
nt = 0
oa = 0 ## low wins
ob = 0
nf = 0
for a in low:
    for b in high:
        if (a > 0) and (b > 0):
            if a > b:
                ob += 1
                na += 1
            elif b > a:
                oa += 1
                nb += 1
            else:
                nt += 1
        elif a > 0:
            na += 1
            oa += 1
        elif b > 0:
            nb += 1
            ob += 1
        else:
            nf += 1
print ("HW\ta=",na,"\tb=",nb,"\tt=",nt,"\tf=",nf)
print ("LW\ta=",oa,"\tb=",ob,"\tt=",nt,"\tf=",nf)

Does this factor in the original chance to succeed? 35% for the 7 and 85% for the 17?

 

[aramis erak]

Does this factor in the original chance to succeed? 35% for the 7 and 85% for the 17?

Yes.
first I checked for both succeeding, and if so, comparing.
If not both, check for which succeeded.
If neither, note that. That's the fourth outcome collum.

 

[Ringtail]

And if you have Angry, and the bane on INT skills, getting that shift rest is going to be a pain unless someone else sets up the tent for you.

The idea that you're so angry you can't set up your tent properly is peak comedy. My players tended to share tents because some didn't understand the importance of bushcraft rolls (partially my fault for not explaining but we all went in blind) so only about half the party was competent enough to set up camp in the first place.

 

[overgeeked]

did a bit of programmatic analysis...
with "a" having skill 7, and "b" having 17...
HW a= 42 b= 312 t= 7 both f= 39
LW a= 112 b= 242 t= 7 both f= 39
Note that high wins vs low wins is a significant change.
Low wins means low will win roughly 1/4 of the time, instead of 1/10th, given the 7 vs 17.
lets see an 8 vs 13
HW a= 84 b= 224 t= 8 f= 84
LW a= 124 b= 184 t= 8 f= 84
That's still pretty profound.
While the game doesn't permit ties (the active wins ties), by checking them separately, the program becomes active agnostic.

## low = [1,2,3,4,5, 6, 7, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
## high = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,0,0,0]
low = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
high = [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
na = 0 ## high wins
nb = 0
nt = 0
oa = 0 ## low wins
ob = 0
nf = 0
for a in low:
    for b in high:
        if (a > 0) and (b > 0):
            if a > b:
                ob += 1
                na += 1
            elif b > a:
                oa += 1
                nb += 1
            else:
                nt += 1
        elif a > 0:
            na += 1
            oa += 1
        elif b > 0:
            nb += 1
            ob += 1
        else:
            nf += 1
print ("HW\ta=",na,"\tb=",nb,"\tt=",nt,"\tf=",nf)
print ("LW\ta=",oa,"\tb=",ob,"\tt=",nt,"\tf=",nf)

So not only does it make a difference, it makes a big difference. And the less difference between the skills, the less difference it makes. That’s good to know.

One advantage of blackjack is that you can have the person with the higher skill roll first. If they succeed but roll higher than the lower skill there’s no need for the low skill side to roll.

 

[Wolfpack48]

Yes.
first I checked for both succeeding, and if so, comparing.
If not both, check for which succeeded.
If neither, note that. That's the fourth outcome collum.

So what would be the overall chance at high vs low for a 7 vs 17?

Low 7 at 35% then 25%
High 7 at 35% then 10%

 

[Wolfpack48]

So not only does it make a difference, it makes a big difference. And the less difference between the skills, the less difference it makes. That’s good to know.

One advantage of blackjack is that you can have the person with the higher skill roll first. If they succeed but roll higher than the lower skill there’s no need for the low skill side to roll.

How do you do boons?

 

[overgeeked]

How do you do boons?

Put it into the house rule that this is an exception and you take the “better for you” result instead of the lowest. In this case better for you is highest without going over, as per the blackjack house rule.