D&D (2024) D&D Monster Manual (2025)

[Micah Sweet]

The A5e guidelines are ~4 with little art.
So in 2024 standards even if you take out the redundant chart, that's 6 extra pages.

Just the right amount of art IMO.

 

[dave2008]

The A5e guidelines are ~4 with little art.
So in 2024 standards even if you take out the redundant chart, that's 6 extra pages.

Two questions:

1. Why do you need 6 extra pages. You already said LevelUp did it in 4.
2. What is wrong with 10 pages?

 

[dave2008]

They are typically in the DMG, where they also weren't.

Typical of WotC maybe, but not TSR. 5e24 is going for that old-school vibe!

I mean I miss them and they may yet turn up in another book. But I am not holding my breath. I designed monsters for the firsts 20+ years without monster guidelines, I can do it for another 25!

 

[Minigiant]

Just the right amount of art IMO.

I was being conservative.

Two questions:

1. Why do you need 6 extra pages. You already said LevelUp did it in 4.
2. What is wrong with 10 pages?

1) The 2024 are more art heavy that 2014 or A5E

2) It's not 10 pages. It's the 10 pages of Updated 2014 DMG rules + the ~6 A5e advice + ~2 more pages of the Effects to Damage calculator for 16-20 pages to do a "good job for the 1PP".

 

[dave2008]

I was being conservative.

1) The 2024 are more art heavy that 2014 or A5E

Ok

2) It's not 10 pages. It's the 10 pages of Updated 2014 DMG rules + the ~6 A5e advice + ~2 more pages of the Effects to Damage calculator for 16-20 pages to do a "good job for the 1PP".

My point is you can do a good job in 4 pages (probably less). Can you do a perfect job - no. I don't think that is possible. But you can do a good job I think. When the 2024 MM comes out I am going to develop my own little guide and see how concise I can get it.

I plan to have fast creation rules (about 1 page) and complex / full creation rules (somewhere south of 10 pages I hope).

 

[the Jester]

Typical of WotC maybe, but not TSR. 5e24 is going for that old-school vibe!

I mean I miss them and they may yet turn up in another book. But I am not holding my breath. I designed monsters for the firsts 20+ years without monster guidelines, I can do it for another 25!

There were monster design guidelines though. They weren't robust; they were sort of hidden, even. But they were in the rules for figuring out the xp value of a monster. Sure, they didn't tell you how many Hit Dice to give a monster; but they told you what those HD were worth in xp, and therefore, how tough your monster was (what level it was, in 1e parlance).

Basic had similar things, at least in some versions of Basic. Again, it didn't tell you what AC to plug in or how many attacks to give a monster; but it did tell you what features made a monster extra tough and count as higher HD for xp purposes.

 

[dave2008]

There were monster design guidelines though. They weren't robust; they were sort of hidden, even. But they were in the rules for figuring out the xp value of a monster. Sure, they didn't tell you how many Hit Dice to give a monster; but they told you what those HD were worth in xp, and therefore, how tough your monster was (what level it was, in 1e parlance).

Basic had similar things, at least in some versions of Basic. Again, it didn't tell you what AC to plug in or how many attacks to give a monster; but it did tell you what features made a monster extra tough and count as higher HD for xp purposes.

I will take your word for it. I certainly don't remember them and just made monsters by comparing them with other monsters in the MM (and DM's books from BECMI).

 

[Minigiant]

My point is you can do a good job in 4 pages (probably less). Can you do a perfect job - no. I don't think that is possible. But you can do a good job I think. When the 2024 MM comes out I am going to develop my own little guide and see how concise I can get it.

My point was that WOTC would be able to publish anything that would not be publicly panned or criticized in under 15 pages.

Fans judge WOTC harder than 3PP. And for WOTC, it might not have been worth it.

 

[Remathilis]

My point was that WOTC would be able to publish anything that would not be publicly panned or criticized in under 15 pages.

Fans judge WOTC harder than 3PP. And for WOTC, it might not have been worth it.

As I said in the other MM thread, the 2014 guidelines were very hard to use and provided widely varying results. WotC didn't even use them for their own stuff. I guess they felt that they would be a waste for most average players and the advanced ones would figure it out or use a 3pp solution.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My point was that WOTC would be able to publish anything that would not be publicly panned or criticized in under 15 pages.

Fans judge WOTC harder than 3PP. And for WOTC, it might not have been worth it.

That's their choice to make. Nobody's stopping WotC from publishing something clearly desired by a segment of their fan base except WotC.