D&D (2024) Check Out The New Monster Manual’s Ancient Gold Dragon

Wizards of the Coast has previewed (part of) the stat block for one of its iconic monsters on social media. Take a look!

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I don't like this dragon. It is size of a bus but it does not hit hard at all. Breath weapon is pretty sad too. Its power comes from banishment, which completely overshadows the other options, and is annoying and boring.

I want dragon that feels big and physically powerful. I want breath weapon, the signature ability of dragons, to be scary. On the other hand I don't want abilities that force players to do nothing on their turn. I hope chromatics are better.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Again, why are we having the Dragon fight solo against level 20 PCs, when it was argued to be a solo fight for level 17 PCs?

Heck, why are we continuing to argue it must be a solo fight, when we all are perfectly aware that solo fights are incredibly difficult to balance and every fight we actually run at the table usually has minions and other creatures?

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Doing a test as well over in this thread in a short while.

D&D (2024) - Testing against the Gold Dragon

To see just how well the Gold Dragon preforms against a basic level 20 party I am going to do a test run. I will do it in the morning, but I have Initiative rolled up. Gold Dragon only rolled a 2 with that + 16 of his so he's going in the middle. Luca is a Thief Rogue, Loonas a Champion...

www.enworld.org

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Again, why are we having the Dragon fight solo against level 20 PCs, when it was argued to be a solo fight for level 17 PCs?

Heck, why are we continuing to argue it must be a solo fight, when we all are perfectly aware that solo fights are incredibly difficult to balance and every fight we actually run at the table usually has minions and other creatures?

Because dragons are classic solo monsters and should work if run as such.

 

[Sulicius]

Again, why are we having the Dragon fight solo against level 20 PCs, when it was argued to be a solo fight for level 17 PCs?

Heck, why are we continuing to argue it must be a solo fight, when we all are perfectly aware that solo fights are incredibly difficult to balance and every fight we actually run at the table usually has minions and other creatures?

Why? Because I believe in the game at the table being different than the game discussed here on the forums. Testing helps me run better games.

And solo fights are classic. I want them to be possible in D&D. So far only MCDM seems to have figured out how to do it well.

 

[dave2008]

And solo fights are classic. I want them to be possible in D&D. So far only MCDM seems to have figured out how to do it well.

Goodness no. They are worse then WotC IMO. I am not a fan of villain actions. I don't think MCDM has come close to figuring it out, at least at high CR. I haven't really paid attention to their lower CR solos.

 

[Sulicius]

Goodness no. They are worse then WotC IMO. I am not a fan of villain actions. I don't think MCDM has come close to figuring it out, at least at high CR. I haven't really paid attention to their lower CR solos.

Why do you say that? I have had great success with them.

 

[dave2008]

Why do you say that? I have had great success with them.

Mostly because they prescribe a way the creature has to play. You can only use one per round (which may or may not be an issue) and only one of each per encounter. So if your encounter goes beyond 3 rounds you're screwed. Now can I compensate for these issues - yes, but why? They took legendary actions and just made them worse IME.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Because dragons are classic solo monsters and should work if run as such.

But it has never worked. It didn't work in 3.X to the point that they redesigned solo monsters in 4e, and it still didn't work. And they tried to use legendary actions in 5e... and it still didn't work. So why would we expect it to work after 20+ years of it not working?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Why? Because I believe in the game at the table being different than the game discussed here on the forums. Testing helps me run better games.

I still don't see how testing the dragon against level 20 PCs helps show that it cannot face level 17 PCs. There seems to be an obvious disconnect with that.

And solo fights are classic. I want them to be possible in D&D. So far only MCDM seems to have figured out how to do it well.

Classic? Sure. Have EVER worked well in the past 20 years of the game? Less so.