WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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I must say I’m confused about the take.

Firstly - and I don’t think this can be overstated - guys in their mid to late forties are not in a position to say whether anything is cool or not. And that’s me speaking as a guy in my mid forties.

Secondly. Have I been asleep or did we not just see a well received D&D movie (90+ Rotten Tomato’s for critics and audience). What about the AAA CRPG that is unashamedly and successfully D&D. What about Massive 2024 books sales. All in the last 2 years. Post OGL.

I feel like people don’t appreciate backwards compatibility (and not the Pathfinder backwards compatibility that didn’t really work) Every time someone releases a 5e product it is also supporting 2024. Even adjacent systems with have stuff to pinch. I just bought Dungeons of Drakkenheim to run with 2024. As written. No adjustment, or rather no more than I would adjust any pre-written adventure.

All that said. Cool is dependent on the circle you move in. It’s not a good word to describe success, popularity, or how good something is. It’s a word tied up with social status and I’m afraid to say that amongst some circles at the moment it’s cool to be anti-WotC/D&D 2024. I don’t really understand it to be honest. It seems the very essence of ‘biting the hand that feeds you.’

There's a distinct lack of excitement online. Movie tanked (it was always gonna be a hard sell).

There's a few downers around but there's not really a massive D&D sucks either.

It's also to early to really say one way or another. I expected a big initial burst we don't know if that's sustainable.

My personal opinion is a variety of factors recent mediocre products being one of them. I don't think we will see growth like 2014 I'm expecting 1E to 2E slow decline.

I'm also not that fanatic on that opinion if data proves me wrong.
 

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I keep seeing people state that OGL had no effect on people, but…
-The D&D movie tanked
-People where canceling their D&D Beyond accounts so fast that the unsubscribe page was taken down
Who's claiming that the OGL mess had no effect on fans and the community? Nobody.

The D&D movie didn't tank. It wasn't successful enough for Hollywood to merit immediate talks of a sequel, due to complicated reasons, including less-than-stellar marketing, post-pandemic changes in movie-going, a sluggish economy, and competition with Mario.

Folks certainly boycotted the movie due to being upset with WotC . . . but enough folks to significantly affect the box office? I'd need reliable evidence for that one.

Folks certainly canceled their D&D Beyond accounts over upset with WotC . . . and it was certainly something that gave WotC a bit of panic in the short-term . . . but has it made a long-term difference in the growth of D&D Beyond? Again, I'd need reliable evidence for that claim too.
 


There's a distinct lack of excitement online. Movie tanked (it was always gonna be a hard sell).

There's a few downers around but there's not really a massive D&D sucks either.

It's also to early to really say one way or another. I expected a big initial burst we don't know if that's sustainable.

My personal opinion is a variety of factors recent mediocre products being one of them. I don't think we will see growth like 2014 I'm expecting 1E to 2E slow decline.

I'm also not that fanatic on that opinion if data proves me wrong.
It’s possible for growth to slow without the player base or sales declining. 3% growth is less than 25% but it’s still growth.

I wasn’t talking about the commercial success of the film. I don’t worry about such things post Covid. I was talking about how well received it was and 90%+ RT scores for audience and critics tell me it was well received.

See the thing is, for the most part I think the recent products are better and less derivative than what came out at release - Tyranny of Dragons, Rise of Tiamat, Princes of the Apocalypse, Storm Kings Thunder.

If D&D shrinks I’ll still keep on playing. It wasn’t Cool when I played as a teenager. That wouldn’t stop me playing it now.
 
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I'd buy a book released with that tone, style, and target demographic, in a second.

Do you think Wizards would release it?
They released the Book of Vile Darkness. But no, I don’t think they would. Nobody wants to publish a book where bears have sex with tiny elf maidens. Or rather those that want to, aren’t allowed to.
 
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