The Fantastic Four: First Steps - Official Teaser Trailer (2025)

[Mistwell]

And obviously, ONLY MEN can sacrifice for their loved ones...

The female Surfer doesn't make that sacrifice in the comics (not even in the What If? version). So it would be a pretty odd change to go with the female version but with the male backstory.

Again, I'm fine with them going with the female version of the character. But, don't make it just a female version of the male character's story. The female version has her own backstory, and she deserves to have her story be told if they're going to use that character. Using the male character's story instead really would be changing her gender just to change her gender, and not to tell a story.

 

[Umbran]

Hopefully the MCU Doom (I'm assuming Downey Doom dies during Secret Wars) will take this approach.

I will be unsurprised if Doom is the one villain they don't kill.

One issue with the MCU is that they can't seem to let people keep wearing their masks, though, so I have little hope there.

 

[jian]

If you haven't read Planetary, their version of the Fantastic Four -- which predates the era of the techbro, so they're military-industrial complex villains -- is a great and scary bunch with a similar approach.

I have and while I’m sure the versions in my idea would be up for controlling the world as its secret masters and hoarders of cool stuff, I think they’d be way too incompetent to do so.

 

[jian]

You could practically hear the gears grinding in the last 20 minutes of Wandavision so that we could have the requisite 20 minutes of CGI fighting after hours of trippy meditations on loss and identity.

Wanda’s player: All this vintage TV sitcom referencing is cool and all, but what Momma needs is some sweet XP.
GM: You’re already more powerful than everyone else in the setting.
WP: And how did I get there? Not by slacking off, I can tell you.

 

[trappedslider]

As long as Doom ensures kids get a good night sleep in his kingdom

 

[Umbran]

The female Surfer doesn't make that sacrifice in the comics (not even in the What If? version). So it would be a pretty odd change to go with the female version but with the male backstory.

My point was not that they'd use the original backstory, but that the implied link between "saved my planet and my love" with gender was sexist weak-sauce. A female character could just as easily have that backstory.

Just like a woman character can have a romance with Alicia Masters. It is the 21st century. Same-sex couples happen. Not that they'll do that either - they won't touch that story in this context, so it is a non-issue.

The problem with the other origins is that they don't make a lot of sense in a world that didn't have Norrin as Surfer first.

Using the male character's story instead really would be changing her gender just to change her gender, and not to tell a story.

With respect:

1) Given how much of a sausage-fest the film would be otherwise, I'd be okay with the change just for purposes of representation.

2) There's a great deal more to telling a story than the character's history prior to the action we are seeing.

Heck, in the original comics, the Surfer turns on Galactus due to Alicia Masters. Having that conversation - on the value of life - between two women, would alone be worth the change.

 

[Ryujin]

As long as Doom ensures kids get a good night sleep in his kingdom

He's a megalomaniac, not a monster.

 

[Mistwell]

My point was not that they'd use the original backstory, but that the implied link between "saved my planet and my love" with gender was sexist weak-sauce. A female character could just as easily have that backstory.

Just like a woman character can have a romance with Alicia Masters. It is the 21st century. Same-sex couples happen. Not that they'll do that either - they won't touch that story in this context, so it is a non-issue.

The problem with the other origins is that they don't make a lot of sense in a world that didn't have Norrin as Surfer first.



With respect:

1) Given how much of a sausage-fest the film would be otherwise, I'd be okay with the change just for purposes of representation.

2) There's a great deal more to telling a story than the character's history prior to the action we are seeing.

Heck, in the original comics, the Surfer turns on Galactus due to Alicia Masters. Having that conversation - on the value of life - between two women, would alone be worth the change.

Umbran THE CHARACTER ALREADY EXISTS AS FEMALE IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE AND IT WOULD BE INSULTING TO USE THAT CHARACTER BUT THE MALE VERSION'S BACKSTORY. It's anti-representative to change an existing female character's backstory to instead be the male character's backstory, particularly when the female character's backstory is already just as compelling as the male character. That's saying the female character's story isn't worth telling and the gender is purely performative rather substantive. Performative representation when there could just as easily be real representation is, as you say, sexist weak-sauce.

 

[billd91]

Umbran THE CHARACTER ALREADY EXISTS AS FEMALE IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE AND IT WOULD BE INSULTING TO USE THAT CHARACTER BUT THE MALE VERSION'S BACKSTORY. It's anti-representative to change an existing female character's backstory to instead be the male character's backstory, particularly when the female character's backstory is already just as compelling as the male character. That's saying the female character's story isn't worth telling and the gender is purely performative rather substantive. Performative representation when there could just as easily be real representation is, as you say, sexist weak-sauce.

But the character doesn't exist in the Marvel CINEMATIC Universe yet. You may have noticed that characters in the MCU don't completely conform to characters in the print Marvel Universe in all ways.

 

[Jensaarai]

they don't need to constantly have every movie be a part of this great crossover universe