D&D (2024) Martial/Caster fix.

[mellored]

You can still create a clone army, even in 2024, via simulacrum and wish. I don't see anything in the 2024 descriptions preventing this from happening.

Correct me if I am wrong??

You can by how it's written, but the intention is that you don't.

Still intended that you can clone a level 20 rogue though.

 

[mellored]

Read the last sentence of the 2024 version.

It says you can't cast it again.
That doesn't stop your clone from casting simulacrum.

But I don't see any DM allowing that.

And I personally wouldn't allow cloning combat abilities either.

 

[Zardnaar]

It says you can't cast it again.
That doesn't stop your clone from casting simulacrum.

But I don't see any DM allowing that.

And I personally wouldn't allow cloning combat abilities either.

It's mostly online storm in teacup anyway.

Resl games ruined in common probably 0.

Simulacrum isn't even that good until wish. At the levrls you can cast it it's fragile.

 

[Ashrym]

It says you can't cast it again.
That doesn't stop your clone from casting simulacrum.

But I don't see any DM allowing that.

And I personally wouldn't allow cloning combat abilities either.

Your clone wouldn't have a spell slot to cast simulacrum because you've already used that slot up casting the first simulacrum. I don't think game statistics at the time of casting refills used spell slots.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I told you already I had to nerf the spell to stop it from happening...




If I hadn't nerfed it, the player would have had a few thousand simulacrums in less than 8 hours, tens of thousands in a week, and over one-hundred thousand in a month if they wanted to. Just needed downtime and there you go.

Of course, your reply earlier and my response.



And guess what? As far as I can see there is nothing in the 2024 version of either spell to stop this from happening. You can bet your ass if I ever get to play a wizard to 17+ level I will spam the hell out of this unless the DM takes similar steps to nerf either simulacrum or wish.

Of course, you seem to prefer nerfing or removing wish entirely since you gave this post a like:


That is certainly a solution, the other is to just add the line to simulacrum I have above:
Only one simulacrum of a creature can exist at any time. If a simulacrum of the target creature already exists, the spell fails.

That is another solution. Take your pick.

But, yeah, this can actually happen in a game, no theory-crafting or anything going on...

The limiting availability of Wish solution seems more elegant to me than reducing the power of a cool thing, but if that's your way have at it.

 

[ezo]

Read the last sentence of the 2024 version.

You mean this:
If you cast this spell again, any simulacrum you created with this spell is instantly destroyed.

Not a problem. You (the Wizard) is not casting it again... your simulacrum is using wish to duplicate the spell to create another simulacrum of you. Ad naseum...

You can by how it's written, but the intention is that you don't.

And that is the problem. If the intention was you don't, it would be easy enough to write it that way. So, it begs the question, why... after knowing this to be an issue... did they not fix it?

Resl games ruined in common probably 0.

As long as the DM takes step to actually stop it from happening... true. My game wasn't ruined, but I had to stop it as DM. We shouldn't have to fix an issue which has been known to be an issue for a long time.

Maybe it will be errata'd someday.

Your clone wouldn't have a spell slot to cast simulacrum because you've already used that slot up casting the first simulacrum.

No. You use your spell slot (7th) to cast simulacrum. You still have your 9th-level slot.
Your simulacrum uses it's 9th-level slot for wish, to duplicate simulacrum and create a duplicate of you. There are now TWO simulacrums... the new one also has a 9th-level slot because you did.
The new one repeats the process, always duplicating you, and newer ones always have the 9th-level slot to continue the process.

The limiting availability of Wish solution seems more elegant to me than reducing the power of a cool thing, but if that's your way have at it.

Really? Hmm... If wish is otherwise an issue, go for it.

My solution is simple: If a simulacrum of a creature exists already, the spell fails automatically. How hard is that? You tack that on to the 2024 version and you're golden.

So, worst case scenario: You make a SIM of yourself. The SIM uses wish to make a SIM of itself. So, that's it. And the last SIM would only have 1/4 of your max HP (half of the original SIM) and no 9th-level slot, either.

 

[mellored]

It's mostly online storm in teacup anyway.

Resl games ruined in common probably 0.

Agreed. No DM would allow it.

Or rather, I would just have a clone army attack the party first. What's works for PCs also works for players.

Simulacrum isn't even that good until wish. At the levrls you can cast it it's fragile.

Doing it on a level 20 rogue is very good.
Not an army, but still very much worth the time and money, and in line with intended use of the spell.

And a rogue clone can then go steal some more ruby dust to pay you back.

Your clone wouldn't have a spell slot to cast simulacrum because you've already used that slot up casting the first simulacrum. I don't think game statistics at the time of casting refills used spell slots.

You use your 7th level slot to cast Simulacrum on yourself.
*Optionally take a long rest to recover the slot.
Your clone can now Wishs a clone of you
and that close can cast wish on you.
Repeat previous 2 steps for your army.
then use Wish to make 25,000 gp ruby dust (10,000 profit)
then wish for permanent resistance
-not caring if your clone loses the ability to cast wish.

Infinite army, 10,000gp per day, and resistance to all damage types over a month or so.


Or have 2 casters with Wish. Quicker with teamwork.

 

[ezo]

Or have 2 casters with Wish. Quicker with teamwork.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Chaltab]

I like the A5E solution for Simulacrum Cheese:

The Simulacrum can't cast spells of 7th level or higher. No Wish, no Simulacrum.

 

[GrimCo]

If players use cheese, dm's can use cheese too. Simulacrum, say hello to my antimagic field.