Spoilers Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

[Ryujin]

Yes, I thought that was a stupid addition, and quite unnecessary to the story. It doesn’t necessarily make him special, either, since he’s physically fully human. Also, that wasn’t known to most Bajorans and so it doesn’t make him more important to their religion.

It makes him more important to The Prophets, as they ensured he'd be born. They had to. They live outside time and, to them, it all essentially happens at once. To them, if he hadn't insured their existence, it would be as if they had never existed. Perhaps they even wouldn't have, given their extratemporal nature.

 

[billd91]

Then I think you missed that Sisko is essentially half Prophet, through his mother. His mother was possessed by a Prophet at the time of his conception.

Possessed, sure, but it sounds like it was more along the lines of eugenics through mind control than anything else. In fact, it's really kind of creepy how much the Prophets had been farting around with Sisko just to get him to encounter them and become the Emissary.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Ok, fine! Have it your way!! All y'all have made me want to finally watch DS9!! Crap!!

 

[Ryujin]

Possessed, sure, but it sounds like it was more along the lines of eugenics through mind control than anything else. In fact, it's really kind of creepy how much the Prophets had been farting around with Sisko just to get him to encounter them and become the Emissary.

I guess you need to think of it in terms of a time loop, sort of, since it's hard to wrap your (my) mind around the concept of beings outside of time. They know that Sisko saves them from the Kosst Amojan, later on., so they have to make sure that he's created so that he can save them.

EDIT - And from the Bajoran point of view the Emissary isn't the saviour of the Bajorans, but the savior of their "gods." That makes him a pretty special being.

 

[jian]

I guess you need to think of it in terms of a time loop, sort of, since it's hard to wrap your (my) mind around the concept of beings outside of time. They know that Sisko saves them from the Kosst Amojan, later on., so they have to make sure that he's created so that he can save them.

EDIT - And from the Bajoran point of view the Emissary isn't the saviour of the Bajorans, but the savior of their "gods." That makes him a pretty special being.

Yes, I think the Prophets exist outside time so for them, time is space - you can go to the past or future whenever you like. From their point of view I wonder if Sisko was one of the first solids (ha ha) they’d met and that’s what made them wander around time poking around and doing things like, well, dropping off Orbs and living as Sarah. Pretty rough on Sarah, though - she was so traumatised by the experience that she ran off to Australia.

 

[overgeeked]

Ok, fine! Have it your way!! All y'all have made me want to finally watch DS9!! Crap!!

I'd suggest giving it an episode or two. If you're not sure, watch the Pilot and Duet. They won't all be that good, but those are two great sample episodes from season one. Also, do yourself a favor and skip Move Along Home. It's not the worst Trek episode ever, but it's definitely in the running.

 

[Ryujin]

Yes, I think the Prophets exist outside time so for them, time is space - you can go to the past or future whenever you like. From their point of view I wonder if Sisko was one of the first solids (ha ha) they’d met and that’s what made them wander around time poking around and doing things like, well, dropping off Orbs and living as Sarah. Pretty rough on Sarah, though - she was so traumatised by the experience that she ran off to Australia.

That's the thing. "First" is a meaningless concept to them. He is The Sisko. He has always been with them.

 

[jian]

That's the thing. "First" is a meaningless concept to them. He is The Sisko. He has always been with them.

But I suspect they do have some sense of before and after, just not in linear time. It’s possible they have another dimension of continuity that isn’t time. They give the impression of never having encountered such concepts before, hence they have been in a state of not knowing about them at some point.

The solids/corporeals thing now makes me wonder about an alternate version of DS9 where the Founders are also non-temporal extradimensional beings (not the pagh-wraiths, I weirdly dislike that whole concept) whose response to encountering corporeals was to enslave them all. Encountering non-enslaved corporeals and non-temporals who disagree with them - or maybe were/will be them* - would be what kicks off the Dominion War. But what we got is really good too, taking one of Odo’s personal plot points and running with it was pretty cool (if expensive for the SFX budget).

*”We are, we were, we will be the lloigor.”

 

[jian]

I forgot, one thing I laughed at from the first episode is when Prophet-Jennifer turns to Sisko and says in her usual puzzled way, “Pleasure? What is this?” You can see Sisko struggling not to think, “What would James T Kirk do?”

 

[Ryujin]

But I suspect they do have some sense of before and after, just not in linear time. It’s possible they have another dimension of continuity that isn’t time. They give the impression of never having encountered such concepts before, hence they have been in a state of not knowing about them at some point.

The solids/corporeals thing now makes me wonder about an alternate version of DS9 where the Founders are also non-temporal extradimensional beings (not the pagh-wraiths, I weirdly dislike that whole concept) whose response to encountering corporeals was to enslave them all. Encountering non-enslaved corporeals and non-temporals who disagree with them - or maybe were/will be them* - would be what kicks off the Dominion War. But what we got is really good too, taking one of Odo’s personal plot points and running with it was pretty cool (if expensive for the SFX budget).

*”We are, we were, we will be the lloigor.”

That gets complicated. They know all of time, and yet don't have a concept of linear time until Sisko explains it to them. I suppose that either means that they had the concept all along, since "until" is meaningless to them, or the explanation is similarly meaningless to them.