D&D (2024) D&D Marilith Is Far More Bestial In 2025

The new 2025 Monster Manual has all-new art, and one major change is the depiction of the marilith. Up until now, the marilith has been depicted as a six-armed humanish female from the waist up; while in the 2025 book, the picture is far more bestial in nature.

Not only is the imagery more demonic, it also features the creature in action, simultaneously beheading, stabbing, and entwining its foes with its six arms and snake-like tail.

Left 2025 Marilith / Right 2014 Marilith​

 

[dave2008]

@dave2008 Here is lore from various editions.

1e: Another of the female demons with a multiarmed female torso atop the body of a great snake."

2e: "Terrible to behold, these creatures have the bodies of giant snakes, with huge, green, scaly coils. From the waist up, they are beautiful, comely females."

3e: "This large, otherworldly entity appears to be an attractive female human with six arms—at least from her head to her waist."

4e: "THIS SIX-ARMED, SERPENTINE TERROR delights in hacking enemies to pieces with its swords, doing so with horrifying ease and astonishing grace." - Does not use the word female, but the picture is very much female.

5e: "Terrible to behold, a marilith has the lower body of a great serpent and the upper torso of a humanoid female with six arms."

In 4 of the 5 editions, it uses the word female. In 4e, it shows female. In 5.5e it does not show female. Does it use the word? If both are gone, that is very telling.

I know, I just read them. I find it very interesting the immediately (2e on) stopped calling them "female demons" and instead simply describe there upper body as looking like female humanoid. I sense you think that is minor, but to my eye it is important. It tells me TSR, and then WotC realized having a torso look like a human female doesn't make you female. I imagine that actually see them as sexless or whatever sex they want to be.

 

[Scribe]

I know, I just read them. I find it very interesting the immediately (2e on) stopped calling them "female demons" and instead simply describe there upper body as looking like female humanoid. I sense you think that is minor, but to my eye it is important. It tells me TSR, and then WotC realized having a torso look like a human female doesn't make you female. I imagine that actually see them as sexless or whatever sex they want to be.

No dude, it means they understood exactly what the vast majority of readers would intuitively understand.

Its a demon, obviously, that goes without further saying.
It has the upper body of a female.

There is no need to say 'female demons' because its clear to all with eyes.

 

[Imaro]

I believe all of these are better in a number of ways.

PF2, DCC, Dragonbane, Shadowdark, Vaesen, any number of smaller or Indy level games are vastly more creative, any number have far more evocative art, design, anything you can think of.

Wizards is the middle of the pack, safe option that can be mass produced and consumed inoffensively, to some.

I didn't ask for a list of who you thought were better than WotC, just from your posts I can tell you prefer other game companies... You spoke to a top dog so I'm asking you to name one when it comes to quality... or are we talking about creativity this time? Because to me it seems you're substituting these words in for... what Scribe likes more as opposed to some metric such as market share. If that's the case why don't you just say you like other games better instead of trrying to sling mud at a game others enjoy, because believe me I've seen the same type of insults and justifications hurled at all the games you listed above on reddit. So I guess I get it. You don't like Dungeons and Dragons 5e '24... you just like to go into threads about it and disparage the game... guess that's something.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I dont think this is true anymore. You can find 'D&D' elsewhere, and I would argue better versions of it.

The more Wizards makes a joke of themselves and their game, especially as their 'new playerbase' gets older and starts to open their eyes to the sheer variety on tap with very little effort involved?

People will continue to branch out.

Its not 5.0 release anymore. Wizards is not remotely top dog, in anything but market saturation, and a HUGE part of that is the name and budget for marketing.

Haven’t you been using “it’s just an elfgame” quite a bit recently? I feel the phrase applies very well to how you’re reacting to this. “WotC is making a joke of themselves” because of a small change in art for a handful of monsters that you happen to dislike for ideological reasons? Give me a break. This is ridiculous.

There are definitely many systems that do many things better than 5e. But I highly doubt that small visual changes like this are going to push away many fans. And if it does . . . good riddance and I hope you enjoy whatever game you leave to play.

 

[dave2008]

Considering the obvious shift with the other monsters, why are we even torturing the point here?

None of this passes the eye test. Folks just want to (unbelievably) either give Wizards the benefit of the doubt, or agree with what they are obviously doing.

I am curious, what is the "benefit of the doubt" here?

I have said my thoughts multiple times, but I will post them here again.

Marilith, I think the change is to:

1. make the demon more monstrous. The idea of demons being more destructive and monstrous started with 4e and continues here. This seems a natural extension of the ideas pushed in 4e.
2. as @Micah Sweet suggest I suspect the change is to provide some distance from an association with Kali. There has been a move away from RL religion in 5e the last few years. This seems like a natural extension of that idea.
3. I still think this marilith reads as female to me (it is in the face - but I am the only one that sees that apparently).
4. I don't think demons have a sex. This is not lore a D&D lore based thing, just my own opinion. Though it is supported by the lore of how demons are created.

Hags, I think the change is to:

1. I am not sure on this one, but I would guess to distance the game from idea that women = evil / dangerous. This, unfortunately is a real thing, and only more so recently. I feel I might break some forum rules if I get to much into this, but I have first hand (maybe 2nd hand) experience with this issue. So I know it is a poison that should be avoided. If anyone wants to discuss - DM me.
2. It is, and this is subjective, cool and fun. My goodness I love all the hag art. I never realized I wanted male hags until getting this art. It is just awesome.

 

[Scribe]

Haven’t you been using “it’s just an elfgame” quite a bit recently?

Thats right, but make sure to get the male banshees, hags, medusa and in for reasons.

 

[dave2008]

No dude, it means they understood exactly what the vast majority of readers would intuitively understand.

Its a demon, obviously, that goes without further saying.
It has the upper body of a female.

There is no need to say 'female demons' because its clear to all with eyes.

And those with knowledge and data know eye-witness testimony is terribly unreliable.

I could absolutely be wrong, but then why change the language? Why not call them female demons? I find it interesting. Not that it really matters, like I said, I don't believe in male or female demons.

 

[dave2008]

Thats right, but make sure to get the male banshees, hags, medusa and in for reasons.

Do we really need more of a reason than they are awesome. No, I didn't think so!

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Thats right, but make sure to get the male banshees, hags, medusa and in for reasons.

I do not understand what this sentence is saying.

 

[Scribe]

I do not understand what this sentence is saying.

Sigh.

The point is, that yes, its a game. Its just a game. Its always been just a game.

Its been a long year, and the day has gone on for far too long, so my apologies.

Enjoy 5.5 if thats what makes you happy.