D&D General No One Reads Conan Now -- So What Are They Reading?

[Mannahnin]

I think everyone agrees racism is a problem. But where people are disagreeing is on whether a given thing is racist, at what point it becomes racist, etc. I just think this kind of black and white approach to something like what media people like, starts to feel like an inquisition after a while.

This is rhetorically likening the critical evaluation of dead writers to persecution and torture. Unless you mean you feel like you're being inquisited, which of course you're not, because you're choosing to participate and argue. No one's compelling you to. And your characterization of it as a "black and white approach" seems weird since everyone here talking about the racism is either saying there's nuance and variation in the works, or asking about such variation and expressly indicating openness to seeing it.

Also this approach, what you are advocating here and what @overgeeked demonstrates above, does very little to advances the causes you are discussing. If anything it drives people further from the ideas you want them to embrace and creates greater resentment

And this reads like victim blaming. "You pointing out that things are racist makes people who like those things feel bad and resent you."

No thanks.

 

[Mistwell]

I really wish I could recommend Saladin Ahmed's "Throne of the Crescent Moon" (and the prequel novella "Where Virtue Lives") as modern sword & sorcery with a non-Western approach. Excellent writing and storytelling.

Unfortunately he's joined the growing list of authors who start series and don't finish them. Grrr!

Am I to understand that Mr. Ahmed said in his blog that his depression has not just caused him to not write the sequel, not just caused him to not respond to fans with any updates anymore, but had caused him to complete an entire draft of the sequel and then delete the entire thing?

Woof. It was on my list of books to read. Maybe still is but I am going to have to chew on that one for a bit before deciding.

 

[Bedrockgames]

This is rhetorically likening the critical evaluation of dead writers to persecution and torture. Unless you mean you feel like you're being inquisited, which of course you're not, because you're choosing to participate and argue. No one's compelling you to.

I am saying when posters attack other posters for disagreeing with them about whether something is problematic and it is more of an interrogation than a conversation.

And this reads like victim blaming. "You pointing out that things are racist makes people who like those things feel bad and resent you."

No thanks.

It isn’t victim blaming. I am pointing to an approach that is clearly not very effective and likely to have the opposite of intended result. If you just write people off because of their feeling about a trope being problematic, that person is way more likely to dig in their heels, become resentful. It is saying people are allowing their sense of righteousness over the issue to turn into wrath. And it is pointing out when @overgeeked does this it only makes a person like me resentful and less likely to be persuaded to their position. I think we’ve seen this play out a lot over the past few years. Thankfully I am centered enough it doesn’t impact my worldview. But I have seen a lot of folks pushed further to extremes by these tactics

 

[overgeeked]

I read Treasure Island for the first time, oh, I guess it's been about twenty years now, and I was struck by just how much Stevenson was able to fit into a relatively short story. He was originally writing in serial format for a magazine, but compared to the bloat I was used to reading it was a breath of fresh air.

That’s one of the reasons I can grit my teeth at the racism in stuff like Robert E. Howard and the pulp magazines. The pacing and action-packed storytelling is second to none. They’re still racist as hell, but damn to they tell great action-adventure stories despite that. Modern “thrillers” are a snooze fest in comparison.

 

[cbwjm]

I heard the Robert Jordan later ones were decent too but I have not read any.

They are, I have a bunch, maybe all, of them. Worth a read for sure and easily done in an afternoon/evening or two.

 

[cbwjm]

Well, having caight up on the thread, it seems like it is no longer about the topic. I was hoping to get some book recommendations out of it...

 

[nyvinter]

Not only the depression, a lot of things impacted his life around 2017 and Ahmed as a result of that also got a major writer's block that comics let him sidestep but the mix means it's still a "nope, just can't" when it comes to prose.

 

[nyvinter]

Well, having caight up on the thread, it seems like it is no longer about the topic. I was hoping to get some book recommendations out of it...

It's very much not a "what influences RPGs in general" but a very specific list of works that goes into my next fantasy campaign (rule system probably Cortex but might go Weird Wizard — depends on the players)

Jen Williams’ The Ninth Rain
Ellen Kushner’s Swordpoint
Django Wexler’s The Shadow Throne
Patricia McKiIllip’s The Riddle-Master of Hed
T. Kingfisher’s The Clocktaur War
P.C. Hodgell’s God Stalk
C.L. Clark’s The Unbroken
Ursula K. LeGuin’s Earthsea
Mark Lawrence’s Red Sister
Robert Jackson Bennett’s Foundryside
R.J. Barker’s Gods of the Wyrdwood
Martha Wells’ The Witch King
Melissa Caruso’s The Obsidian Tower
Kristen Britain’s Green Rider
Nicola Griffith's The Spear

 

[Clint_L]

I am saying when posters attack other posters for disagreeing with them about whether something is problematic and it is more of an interrogation than a conversation.

It isn’t victim blaming. I am pointing to an approach that is clearly not very effective and likely to have the opposite of intended result. If you just write people off because of their feeling about a trope being problematic, that person is way more likely to dig in their heels, become resentful. It is saying people are allowing their sense of righteousness over the issue to turn into wrath. And it is pointing out when @overgeeked does this it only makes a person like me resentful and less likely to be persuaded to their position. I think we’ve seen this play out a lot over the past few years. Thankfully I am centered enough it doesn’t impact my worldview. But I have seen a lot of folks pushed further to extremes by these tactics

So we should be careful not to call out things that are objectionable because that might alienate those who like them?

Why are their feelings more important than those of the folks who are actually being marginalized? Your post really does read like you are asking that people prejudices should be respected, which I just don't agree with. I think it is better to be direct and plain if I have a problem with something.

I do agree that we have to be careful not to be self-righteous and judgmental. So I can appreciate Lovecraft's genius, and see that much of his content is woefully bigoted, and also see that he is probably a product of his time, his extreme circumstances, and probably poor mental health. All these things can be true, and don't require ignoring his extreme bigotry.

He was also kind of a bad writer, in most technical respects. Yet his contribution to cosmic horror supersedes that, and his invention of marvellously compelling settings..

 

[cbwjm]

It's very much not a "what influences RPGs in general" but a very specific list of works that goes into my next fantasy campaign (rule system probably Cortex but might go Weird Wizard — depends on the players)

Jen Williams’ The Ninth Rain
Ellen Kushner’s Swordpoint
Django Wexler’s The Shadow Throne
Patricia McKiIllip’s The Riddle-Master of Hed
T. Kingfisher’s The Clocktaur War
P.C. Hodgell’s God Stalk
C.L. Clark’s The Unbroken
Ursula K. LeGuin’s Earthsea
Mark Lawrence’s Red Sister
Robert Jackson Bennett’s Foundryside
R.J. Barker’s Gods of the Wyrdwood
Martha Wells’ The Witch King
Melissa Caruso’s The Obsidian Tower
Kristen Britain’s Green Rider
Nicola Griffith's The Spear

Thanks, I'll give these a look at, I think the only one I've read is earthsea which I remember being a great read.