D&D General No One Reads Conan Now -- So What Are They Reading?

[Gellert]

Look, Conan hasn't been relevant for over a decade at this pont and while certain trapping of Sword-n-sorcery still exists the genre as a whole is far from any influence these days.

So what are the genres and media that do have an influence these days?

Doesn't have to be actual literature ofc but basically what are the cultural touchpoints for what fantasy looks and 'feels' like for modern players in your experience? Bonus if it's from players who started with 5e.

Lord of the Ring is cheating.

Is it Sanderson's works? The romantasy 'Court of X and Y' style? Warcraft? How much anime(-adjacents)ness do you think the average DnD player considers now? Is Genshin impact the way younger player/DMs think of how fantasy 'should' be like even subconsciously? Or is it all a bit incestuous with Frieren, Dungeon Meshi and Critical Role being the touchstone of how things should be like?not re

Conan not relevant ? Robert E Howard is very relevant.
Solomon Kane, Conan, Kull, Brak Mak Morn, Turlough O'Brien.... The list goes on.
I think in your world it may not be but I suggest you take a read of REH.
While you are at it have a look at Clark Ashton Smith, Abraham Merritt, Edgar Burroughs and Lin Carter.
You can thank me later

 

[Bedrockgames]

The ability of anyone to produce a Conan story is a bit more complicated, because the character remains trademarked. See a good post here.

Yeah I thought it might be fun to do some Conan stuff as a PDF or something, but when I looked into it, it seemed like the copyright was more involved.

It’s rather a good job none of my players have read Conan. They would never play D&D again!

I am not sure why this would be the case. We can quibble over how widely the guy is read, but I this seems like an odd assertion to me.

Lord of the Rings presumably still gets read sometimes, since the bookshop stocks a lot more copies than it does Conan. Most folk know the movies better though.

Folks still definitely read Lord of the Rings. People always are more familiar with the movies. The movies helped, but one of the reasons the movies got made was because the books still had popularity.

Moorcock is woefully under-read even by the grogs on this forum.

I don't get the impression this is true at all. He consistently comes up among the grogs I know, and I know plenty of non-grogs who like him. I had trouble getting into him, but this was to the irritation of most of my fellow grognards. Moorcock honestly seems like one of the more respected writers across the board to me

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I am not sure why this would be the case. We can quibble over how widely the guy is read, but I this seems like an odd assertion to me

Because of just how racist and sexist it is. D&D would acquire guilt by association if they knew.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Because of just how racist and sexist it is. D&D would acquire guilt by association if they knew.

We've already discussed the whole was he racist thing. So I will just focus on the guilt by association part. This is pretty small minded in my opinion. Something can be influenced by media and not at all share its values. For example Phil Ochs, a socialist folk singer and counter culture icon, was a huge fan of both John Wayne and Merle Haggard. Both influenced his works. He certainly didn't share their politics or even the messaging of much of their media. There is value though if you are a Phil Ochs fan going and listening to Haggard. I also think it is the sign of a mentally mature person to be able to go back, read something from another time, and understand its value even if it has things in it people today would object to.

 

[Clint_L]

Conan not relevant ? Robert E Howard is very relevant.
Solomon Kane, Conan, Kull, Brak Mak Morn, Turlough O'Brien.... The list goes on.
I think in your world it may not be but I suggest you take a read of REH.
While you are at it have a look at Clark Ashton Smith, Abraham Merritt, Edgar Burroughs and Lin Carter.
You can thank me later

I enjoy those 80+ year old characters, but what makes them particularly "relevant"? Are there deep themes that I missed that somehow speak to 2025?

Are there deep themes at all? That's not really why I read Conan. I read it because it was viscerally exciting. I guess that remains relevant, though honestly there are much better contemporary writers if that's what you're in the mood for. Joe Abercrombie characters like Logen Nine-Fingers, for example.

 

[overgeeked]

So the question becomes, who are the publishers taking risks on? Are they accepting every middling sword and sorcery plot that hits their desk while rejecting all but the most popular romantasy books? Or vice versa?

Does that make sense to you?

Caveat: this is only about discrimination by the publisher. If the audience has its own biases, like not buying books from authors with names like "Joanne", that's a separate issue.

Sigh. Publishers picking which books they want to risk gobs of money on is not discrimination, nor is it censorship, nor is it a structural barrier. Publishers chase sales. They’re in the business of printing books that sell, if the books don’t sell well enough they go out of business. So yes, they chase trends, prefer authors with a platform, prefer authors with a good track record, etc. If they don’t they close. It’s simple as that. Markets and audiences change. No matter how much you love a given genre it will not stay popular forever. Sword & sorcery hasn’t been widely popular in decades. That’s not the fault of the publishers. Tastes change. We also have indie authors on platforms like Amazon self-publishing their work. If there’s a niche genre you like, you can find it there. Big publishing houses not risking money on genres that don’t sell isn’t some kind of conspiracy.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

We've already discussed the whole was he racist thing. So I will just focus on the guilt by association part. This is pretty small minded in my opinion.

Small mindedness is a common emotional response if the real target of the anger is inaccessible.

 

[Voadam]

Because of just how racist and sexist it is. D&D would acquire guilt by association if they knew.

I thought you were going another direction, that they would enjoy the action pace and non-magical protagonist so much they would want a different system than 5e.

Maybe Modiphius's 2d20 or Savage Worlds or something that could handle such protagonists more prominently than 5e can.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I enjoy those 80+ year old characters, but what makes them particularly "relevant"? Are there deep themes that I missed that somehow speak to 2025?

Are there deep themes? That's not really why I read Conan. I read it because it was viscerally exciting. I guess that remains relevant, though honestly there are much better contemporary writers if that's what you're in the mood for. Joe Abercrombie characters like Logen Nine-Fingers, for example.

I think he just means people still read them, it still has an influence on gaming. But I think a character like Conan is always going to be relevant in an increasingly complicated world. There is something very appealing about the escapist fantasy of a guy with a simple code, who resolves things with instinct and a sword. I think looking for deep connections to present day concerns is kind of foo foo personally. But I would say the theme of the clash of urban versus rural is also always going to be relevant, whether you are living in South East Asia or the US

 

[Distracted DM]

Because of just how racist and sexist it is. D&D would acquire guilt by association if they knew.

Do they also not know about Cthulhu mythos and HP Lovecraft? That helped inspire stuff that's still in present-day DnD as well
I guess I don't know what I'd do in your shoes; if your players discovered the history and truth, what would guilt by association do? Would they stop playing? But otherwise you're keeping a truth of history from them. Would they be pissed at you if they found out themselves?

Just today on r/DnDnext there was a post about how misogynistic Gygax was. This stuff is tough to keep under wraps. It might be better to acknowledge it and deal with it.