D&D General No One Reads Conan Now -- So What Are They Reading?

[TiQuinn]

Let me introduce you to my 'friend' Fyodor Dostoevsky...

I didn’t have nearly the same trouble with The Brothers Karamazov (the only one I read) for some reason, but I hear you. The style at that time was tortured.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I firmly believe Dickens is the reason Cliff Notes were invented.

The trick to Dickens is reading it out loud. He liked to perform his work.

(That's why Muppet Christmas Carol gets his character so spot on).

 

[Voranzovin]

View attachment 399100The publication of 5e more or less exactly coincided with the historical high-point of interest in Howard's stories, and interest remains far higher than it was at the birth of roleplaying. This thread is based on a false premise.

Where does this data come from, and what is it measuring? We need more context!

 

[Enaknomolos]

What is this actually measuring?

Where is Red Nails?

Why is the poor and horribly racist Queen of the Black Coast above the actually pretty good Beyond the Black River?

What happened in 1865? And why does Beyond the Black River show a blip at that date, when it wasn't published until 1935?

Ngram viewer, so appearances of the string in the google books corpus. I didn't add 'red nails' as I expected there would be more noise than signal with such a common string.

No idea why Queen of the Black Coast is so much higher than the others. Bêlit is a well-loved figure, though, and some do consider it one of the stronger stories, plus it is likely to be a major touchstone if someone is discussing Howard's racism.

1865 is noise - some other appearance of the string

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

I didn’t have nearly the same trouble with The Brothers Karamazov (the only one I read) for some reason, but I hear you. The style at that time was tortured.

One of Heinlein's characters mentioned learning Russian in order to read RussLit in the original, and declared the originals were even more turgid than the translations. RAH knew at least some Russian, so that may have been first hand experience...

 

[Voadam]

I’m mearly assuming that the people talking about the source material have actually read it.

It’s clear that Conan operates policies that penalise the nobility, who would be responsible for defence in a feudal society, instead choosing to enrich the mercantile classes. He relies of foreign mercenaries for defence - it’s not clear how he pays them - perhaps with the wealth he has personally stolen?

I have been repeatedly stumped by your references. I have read a number of Howard Conan and Bran Mak Morn and Solomon Kane and Kull the Conqueror stories but not all and the most recent was over two decades ago.

Conan’s stance on taxes is not something I remember. Was this in the phoenix story?

 

[Bedrockgames]

I would call it “heightened”. “Purple Prose” implies poor quality, but this is quite deliberate, in order to establish gravitas. Howard’s ability to write like this was actually a strength. It perhaps suffers a bit by lack of context.

Lovecraft used similar techniques - which would generally be considered over-writing by modern standards.

I would agree. I get the criticisms of Lovecraft's prose (I've come to appreciate it but I used to scratch my head a bit when I first started reading him). But Howard's prose is in my view 1) very easy for a modern reader to follow, 2) engaging and evocative. Also there is a transition from the other works to Conan. The text feels like he is cooking with a different kind of heat

 

[Bedrockgames]

What is this actually measuring?

Where is Red Nails?

Why is the poor and horribly racist Queen of the Black Coast above the actually pretty good Beyond the Black River?

What happened in 1865? And why does Beyond the Black River show a blip at that date, when it wasn't published until 1935?

Queen of the Black Coast, is still considered one of the best stories though. And it is a very well known title, probably even by people who haven't read him. And I would imagine all the discussion of racism on the internet have given it further reason for people to look into it (I know for me if there is that kind of criticism of a story, novel or movie, one of the firsts things I do is go and see it for myself: Like I am sure when they cut out that scene in The French Connection with the N word, a bunch of people made a point of viewing the scene to understand what people were talking about)

 

[Bedrockgames]

I have been repeatedly stumped by your references. I have read a number of Howard Conan and Bran Mak Morn and Solomon Kane and Kull the Conqueror stories but not all and the most recent was over two decades ago.

Conan’s stance on taxes is not something I remember. Was this in the phoenix story?

It is probably helpful just so everyone is on the same page for folks to cite the story title and even the relevant passage. Even when I know what they are referring to, it is helpful to see the text again when talking about this kind of thing. A passage of text was quoted here recently and I thought that added to the discussion

 

[Von Ether]

Look, Conan hasn't been relevant for over a decade at this pont and while certain trapping of Sword-n-sorcery still exists the genre as a whole is far from any influence these days.

I'd say S&S was on a comeback until, sadly, Howard Andrew Jones passed away this year. His Chronicles of Hanuvar is fun (What if Hannibal had lost and was now freeing his enslaved people across the Empire.)

He had just become editor of Tales From The Magician’s Skull anthology (with monster stats for the bad guys in the stories) magazine, which Goodman Games just sold to Outland Entertainment. Tales From The Magician’s Skull|Goodman Games | Tales From The Magician’s Skull

And New Edge Sword & Sorcery magazine is good as well.

New Edge Sword & Sorcery – Made with love for the classics, and an inclusive, boundary-pushing approach to storytelling!

newedgeswordandsorcery.com