D&D (2024) D&D Marilith Is Far More Bestial In 2025

The new 2025 Monster Manual has all-new art, and one major change is the depiction of the marilith. Up until now, the marilith has been depicted as a six-armed humanish female from the waist up; while in the 2025 book, the picture is far more bestial in nature.

Not only is the imagery more demonic, it also features the creature in action, simultaneously beheading, stabbing, and entwining its foes with its six arms and snake-like tail.

Left 2025 Marilith / Right 2014 Marilith​

 

[Demetrios1453]

It seems to me that damage type is based on weapon type(a mace isn't doing slashing damage), and at least with the 5e MM, you were free by RAW to sub weapons in and out as you saw fit. Does the 5.5e MM not allow that?

It does in the MM Introduction chapter.

 

[Maxperson]

But isn’t that true of every demon? How many female ballots have been depicted? Or any other demon? How many of any of the demons have been depicted as being either gender (or anywhere on the gender spectrum?)?

You can’t on one hand claim that demons can choose gender (and by implication have some control over minor physical appearance) while on the other hand claim that mariliths are somehow the exception when none of the demons have been shown as being able to present as different genders.

Yes, you’re right that the pictures we have of mariliths have always shown an obviously female torso. But, the same is true for every other demon in that they’ve never been shown as being obviously female, despite, by your own insistence, that they can.

I think you meant balrogs up there and were the victim of autocorrect. If I'm wrong, you can correct me.

Sure, they have been portrayed very consistently, as per the lore on demon gender changes. That lore says that it takes a lot of effort, so demons rarely go through the change even though they can. So mariliths mostly stay female. Balrogs mostly stay male.

The thing is, the MM is the default for the game, and defaults aren't there to depict minority situations. They are there to depict what happens the majority of the time. If 19 out of 20(and I don't know exact numbers) mariliths stay female, you don't use a male picture in the default book. If you want to have a male marilith, a future splatbook or adventure is where you put it.

 

[Corinnguard]

If you saw a group of Vultures could you identify which Vultures are male or female? Neither would most artists who would draw things like Vultures or Vrocks, as most of them aren't orinthologists.

Male birds (and most likely Male Vrocks) would have something colorful about them. Size might also be a factor as some birds have it where the female bird is larger than the male bird.

 

[pemerton]

It seems to me that damage type is based on weapon type(a mace isn't doing slashing damage), and at least with the 5e MM, you were free by RAW to sub weapons in and out as you saw fit. Does the 5.5e MM not allow that?

It does in the MM Introduction chapter.

Phew! Imagine if the rules of the game forbade anyone from changing the weapons in MM statblocks!

 

[Incenjucar]

Incidentally, there is a lady pit fiend named Lucille.

 

[pemerton]

The thing is, the MM is the default for the game, and defaults aren't there to depict minority situations. They are there to depict what happens the majority of the time. If 19 out of 20(and I don't know exact numbers) mariliths stay female, you don't use a male picture in the default book. If you want to have a male marilith, a future splatbook or adventure is where you put it.

Where does this rule come from?

I'm looking at the picture of a hobgoblin in my AD&D MM. It has a spiked club i one hand - perhaps a morning star? - a hand axe in the other hand, and a short sword at its belt.

According to the weapon distribution chart, hobgoblins don't even use hand-axes, and a sword and morning star combo is only 5% of the typical hobgoblin force. Polearms are the single most common, at 30%.

The principle that you state in your post seems to me simply to be something that you have made up.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Male birds (and most likely Male Vrocks) would have something colorful about them. Size might also be a factor as some birds have it where the female bird is larger than the male bird.

I looked up the subject myself, Turkey Vultures which are the species of Vultures that most associate with what a Vulture looks like, aren't that distinguishable between male and female. They aren't like Parrots or Mallard Ducks in the ways you can tell the differences.

 

[Maxperson]

Where does this rule come from?

I'm looking at the picture of a hobgoblin in my AD&D MM. It has a spiked club i one hand - perhaps a morning star? - a hand axe in the other hand, and a short sword at its belt.

According to the weapon distribution chart, hobgoblins don't even use hand-axes, and a sword and morning star combo is only 5% of the typical hobgoblin force. Polearms are the single most common, at 30%.

The principle that you state in your post seems to me simply to be something that you have made up.

We have always been able to arm hobgoblins and whatnot with whatever weapons we wanted. Nobody was limited to that chart. It even says "typical" weapon distribution, not these are the only weapons that they use.

And it's not a rule. It's just how you design games. You don't put the obscure changes to creatures in as the default. You put their general appearances as the default. It would be piss poor design to do it the other way.

Edit: Oh, and that's not a spiked club. It's a wooden morning star.

 

[Maxperson]

Phew! Imagine if the rules of the game forbade anyone from changing the weapons in MM statblocks!

That would be kinda lame. I agree.

 

[Hussar]

Many Demons appear like animals such as Vultures, Orangutans, Mosquitos and so on.

Vultures do have different sexes, it's just less obvious to Human observers.

If you saw a group of Vultures could you identify which Vultures are male or female? Neither would most artists who would draw things like Vultures or Vrocks, as most of them aren't orinthologists.

But many demons are also humanoid (ish). Yet, they are always drawn as one gender despite the lore stating that they can be both. Are Balor's always male? Why are there no obviously female Glabrezu?

Again, we're back to cherry picking. The lore that EVERYONE IS INSISTING MUST BE FOLLOWED, states that demons can be any gender. The art NEVER shows this. NO matter what, all demons are shown as a single gender. Regardless of what that demon looks like, it is always drawn as a single gender. That some demons can't be determined is besides the point. Why are you insisting we talk about Vrocks when, as you say, gender would be almost impossible to determine, while ignoring the demon types where gender should be very obvious?