What are you reading in 2025?

You're right to apologize for this post you made.

Have you read the novel? Because what you're describing doesn't match with what's in the tale.

That you call him "Von" Frankenstein is part of why I don't think you know the story as well as you seem to think you do. Quite frankly, the idea that he "repeatedly does truly terrible things" isn't present in the tale. At best it's alluded to, with him making veiled remarks about the nature of his work, but there's no suggestion that he actually hurts anyone; at worst he's vandalizing corpses. Compare this to the monster repeatedly murdering people, including children, simply to make Victor miserable.

Again, this makes it seem like you haven't read the story. He is, indeed, afflicted by trauma from his past, specifically the trauma of seeing his creation brought to life and the work he did to make that happen. We're told at length about how, during the period where Henry Clerval is taking care of him, Victor shows him around the college in Ingolstadt where he (Victor) was working; every time the subject of the sciences came up, particularly with regard to Victor's work on it, he'd struggle with having a nervous breakdown due to being reminded of his efforts to make his creation. This is just one of several such instances where Victor experiences mid- to long-term mental breakdowns due to what happened (he spends two months without lucidity after Clerval is murdered by the monster, for instance).

No, it's not. The book repeatedly demonstrates how the monster is so fearsome to look at that no one can seem to maintain their reasoning when they see his face. Even at the end of the book, when Walton catches sight of the monster (having already been told the entire story), he describes his reaction viscerally, and how it's with difficulty that he manages to call out to the monster not to leave, as per Victor's final request (i.e. he made his saving throw).

This likewise makes me think you misread my post, since I didn't say the monster had a fear aura, just that it was described in a way that seems reminiscent of it.

Yeah, no. This is wrong. By the time the monster begins killing people, he's very clearly developed a fully-functioning understanding of himself and the world. While two years spent observing a single poor family from hiding, and a few absconded books, wouldn't be nearly enough for you or me, the text repeatedly states how the monster's faculties (physical and mental) are beyond that of ordinary men. He likewise states that he knows fully well what he's doing, and that it's with the specific purpose of injuring Victor Frankenstein (again, no "Von" there).

This, at least, is a credible argument, although still not a very good one. The text portrays the monster's emotional control as being on the same level as everyone else that it meets, in that the passions which it claims to be a slave to are no more controllable than anyone else in the story, be it Victor Frankenstein himself, Felix (whose family the monster spies upon to learn more about humans), Clerval (who is repeatedly stated to be a person with a zest for life), and virtually everyone else with a major role in the story.

The monster is tragic because his hideous countenance means he's perpetually isolated from humanity; saying that he's undone because he can't control himself actually runs counter to the understanding of the text, because it removes the monster's own agency. The monster is certainly a tragic figure, as I said before, but that makes him no less an evil one.

Yes, and we know this because the story tells us this. Victor Frankenstein admits to being moved by the monster's pleas about needing a companion, and even agrees to make one for him. It's only midway through this task that he (Victor) reconsiders, thinking back on the evil the monster has already committed, and becomes concerned that he's unleashing the progenitors of a race of daemons who will bedevil all mankind. Had the monster not killed his brother and family friend, it's hard to see Victor coming to that same conclusion.

And again, I don't see anything in the text that suggests this at all. He's arrogant, to be sure, and near the end of the story advises Walton not to succumb to ambition, but self-pitying? His life is destroyed by a monster whose actions are far, FAR out of proportion to whatever charges could be leveled against Frankenstein. The monster tells him directly that he'll destroy his (Victor's) life if he doesn't build him a mate, and that's after he kills two people. To call Victor's anguish "self-pity" is a complete misreading of the story.

No, that's completely false. He considers building another monster because the first one begs him to, and swears that the two of them (the monster and his bride) will disappear to a place with no humans, and never interact with humanity again. Ego never comes into it; there's not even a hint of a suggestion of that.

And most people are wrong, in that regard, which was the point. It's why it's important to read the original story instead of going off of the bastardized versions like you've dne here.

There's really not.

To be clear, this is a wildly inaccurate reading of the story, at least as far as the 1831 version goes. The monster comes to understand morality quite well before committing his crimes, and knows full well what he's doing is wrong and choosing to do it anyway. While certainly a pitiable character, it is indeed a shallow and less-clever understanding of the book to suggest that the monster is, as you said, a child who has no moral compass.
Oh brother.

A wall of text response which:

A) Repeatedly accuses me of not having read a book I studied at GCSE so have no only read but done coursework on and passed exams on (seemingly solely on the basis that you didn't like how I stylized his name).

B) Says there's only one way to understand the novel on several points, and that I'm understanding it "wrong". This is pretty funny when we were just discussing the various different possible understandings, and that you're saying actual literary critics just "got it wrong".

I don't think there's any point discussing specifics with someone who is so extreme as to claim everyone who disagrees with him (which is a vast number of people, including a lot of literary critics, SF authors and so on) has a "wildly inaccurate" read on the story. Good lord.

Ego never comes into it; there's not even a hint of a suggestion of that.
I will only say "lol, lmao even" to this, that's a bit much.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

@Alzrius and @Ruin Explorer, I love Frankenstein and I think it would be great if we could have a friendly conversation about it (not blaming either of you, but I think if we put our egos aside we can see it is a book that afford multiple interpretations). I can see where @Alzrius is coming from. While I think of Victor as neglecting the creature and not taking responsibility throughout the novel, at a certain point, the question is what should he do? Once the creature demands a mate, and he begins work, he realizes it could pose a threat to all humanity (whether this is in fact the case, we can debate: not sure if the creatures would actually be able to breed as he seems to suggest, and if so, not sure they will pass on Creature DNA or just teh DNA of whoever he took the reproductive organs from). But he raises a legitimate concern, and at that point, what options does he have? I do think he behaves somewhat stupidly at this stage, but he isn't going around murdering people like the creature is.

That said I tend to view Frankenstein as a tragic villain because his obsession leads to the creature, his neglect sends the creature on a destructive path, and he could have done more to protect the people around him from the creature (if I remember, and I am already starting to get hazy from my last read, he is worried that if he tells people what happens they won't believe him or he'll end up institutionalized or something. But it isn't like he has no sense of remorse about it

When you are talking about characters I think it is okay for folks to disagree about this stuff. Every time I read the book I come away with a slightly different interpretation because I notice something new, or something I noticed before seems of greater importance.

Also FYI @Ruin Explorer for some reason your post above quoting Alzrius notified me as being quoted. Just letting you know in case there is a formatting issue in the post
 

Oh brother.

A wall of text response which:
Yeah, no. A wall of text is just that, a response which doesn't have line breaks or different paragraphs. It's not a point-by-point response to your own lengthy post.
A) Repeatedly accuses me of not having read a book I studied at GCSE so have no only read but done coursework on and passed exams on (seemingly solely on the basis that you didn't like how I stylized his name).
"Styled" his name? You literally got the name of the titular character wrong—repeatedly—while insisting that you had the better understanding of the story. Hardly the stuff which inspires confidence in your interpretation. 🤷‍♂️
B) Says there's only one way to understand the novel on several points, and that I'm understanding it "wrong". This is pretty funny when we were just discussing the various different possible understandings, and that you're saying actual literary critics just "got it wrong".
Considering that you use the term "right" with regard to your own take on it, this is entirely warranted. And that's leaving aside that you're suddenly availing yourself of unnamed literary critics, which is an argument from authority fallacy.
I don't think there's any point discussing specifics with someone who is so extreme as to claim everyone who disagrees with him (which is a vast number of people, including a lot of literary critics, SF authors and so on) has a "wildly inaccurate" read on the story. Good lord.
And more arguing from authority, along with a sudden refusal to engage in the specifics when it's pointed out that the specifics don't favor your argument (e.g. that Victor does indeed display trauma, that there's no ego in his aborted decision to make the monster a mate, etc.).
I will only say "lol, lmao even" to this, that's a bit much.
Truly a rebuke worthy of GCSE! :p
 


On the trauma issue, I don't think Shelley would have conceived of it as trauma (not sure what mental labels they would have for the behavior) but he definitely seems traumatized after he makes the creature. He is pretty out of it for a while after that incident
 

Frankenstein is a complex tale, and one that continues to cast a spell on readers. I revisit it and Dracula every once in a while and find that both stories retain their impact, continue to evolve as I do, continue to horrify.

When I was younger I had a leather bound book that had both Dracula and Frankenstein in it. I can still smell the paper when I think of ether story
 


@Alzrius Nah mate, you're done.
I don't know what that means, since I'm apparently not done.
You don't get to repeatedly accuse someone of having never read a book, then insult them further, and then say "Debate me". That's not how it works - I should know!
I mean, you should know, since you're the one who opened with insults, insisting that you were "right," and then decided you didn't want to participate in the debate you started.
 

When I was younger I had a leather bound book that had both Dracula and Frankenstein in it. I can still smell the paper when I think of ether story
That sounds way better than the paperback I grew up reading - it had such a hideous cover, like a bad illustration of Bela Lugosi. Still, I read it until it fell apart.
 

I gathered a group to start a new campaign. The initial pitch was a early 11th century England historical campaign using Burning Wheel. I dove back into some of my notes on that period and I my interest slowly shifted towards an earlier period. Either in the first decades of the arrival of the Vikings, or even before; so late 8th century early 9th century.

As much, I started reading Anglo-Saxons: A History of the Beginnings of England by Marc Morris. I've read all kind of history books, both dry and engaging. Four chapters this, I find this one really engaging and flavorful. Just the right amount of depth. I'm taking a ton of notes.
 

Remove ads

Top