D&D General No One Reads Conan Now -- So What Are They Reading?

[TiQuinn]

No, that response was, I thought, a really good. It marshaled good evidence instead of just saying 'relevant' in a vague undefined way. Obviously, I disagree with Clint_L there; but he properly engaged with the question.

As I said, saying "no one" is clearly an exaggeration. That's not a controversial statement.

 

[GobHag]

No, that response was, I thought, a really good. It marshaled good evidence instead of just saying 'relevant' in a vague undefined way. Obviously, I disagree with Clint_L there; but he properly engaged with the question.

And as the Op, can I say that the whole Conan is interesting facts but not really what I want to know or care? Thanks.

 

[Enaknomolos]

Just a quick side note, there were several posts discussing Saunders and Imaro earlier in the thread (between posts 181 and 248, for example).

I must have forgotten that: it's a long thread! Sorry.

 

[Clint_L]

So 'relevant' just means 'cool with the kids' in a vague undefined way?

By the way, your total disinterest in evidence is showing again

You literally made up “evidence” with your Ngrams graphs. What else have you presented but anecdotes? Pot, kettle.

I’m a huge fan of the Kurt Busiek Conan comics from around 15 years ago. But they are a tiny niche compared to the distribution numbers of the Marvel comic back in the 70s.

 

[GobHag]

Even if they were real, I really don't care so please stop with the Conan thing

 

[Enaknomolos]

And as the Op, can I say that the whole Conan is interesting facts but not really what I want to know or care? Thanks.

Yeah, that's a fair point, although the putting the OP that way was probably bound to lead to the 90 pages of debate.

In the interests of what you were perhaps actually looking for, do check out Old Moon 8 that I mentioned before. It has, for instance, a really touching emotional piece about brotherhood from the perspective of a hellhound.

 

[Bedrockgames]

You literally made up “evidence” with your Ngrams graphs. What else have you presented but anecdotes? Pot, kettle.

The graph isn't very convincing. I also tried looking up amazon sales numbers but quickly realized that is all about how you categorize and group things (it would have been easy to make an argument pro or con if you just selected the right genre description). But I do think his point is valid that people were making claims that he was obsolete without there really being any evidence for it

 

[The Firebird]

I think texts like the various Conan books, which I reiterate that I loved as an adolescent and retain a nostalgic fondness for, are limited both because REH is not a particularly gifted writer, and because they are focused on providing visceral thrills for a limited audience. Sure, you can find some themes in there - you can find themes in almost anything - but they aren't particularly novel or insightful. These are pulp stories that were meant to thrill young men a few generations ago. They were very good at that.

Hmm. I'd say REH is gifted but not particularly developed as a writer. He has a great talent for kinetic action, and text that is immediate and vibrant. But his prose is overwrought and his vocabulary limited. And his texts often descend into a series of tropes.

I think you see a marked improvement in his later works, like Beyond the Black River and Red Nails. There is also an association of mediocre works (The Pool of the Black One, Iron Shadows in the Moon) with periods of Howard's life where he needed cash immediately. One wonders where exactly he could have gone if he had lived longer.

In his best stories, I think his themes are well developed, and I think it's precisely this thematic depth that gives him continued resonance.

1. In the era since 2000, there's plenty of other reasons to think there has been an uptick in literary interest:
   • There has been the Del Ray Conan
   • Penguin Classics has published a volume of Smith
   • A mainstream publisher has for the first-time in decades published an expressly S&S series (Howard Andrew Jones's Hannuvar)
   • For the first time in decades, S&S magazines have been self-sustaining (Tales from the Magician's Skull, New Edge, Old Moon).
   • There have been at least two literary movements - Sword & Soul and New Edge - that expressly draw on RE Howard while seeking to move on from his racism and other problematic elements.
   • Etc

I agree this is the strongest case for some kind of revival. Certainly at a critical level it is much easier to find good compilations of Howard's work than it was for decades prior. I don't know if this translates to popular interest, but I do think people are looking for something different than the epic fantasy of the last decade plus.

There is a 'living in a bubble' aspect to much of the discussion in this thread, on both sides. On one side there have been claims that Howard's racism isn't so striking (I think he's a great writer, but really?); but on the other side his racism is presented as though it is an insurmountable obstacle to his significance, as though brilliant black writers haven't been inspired by him while challenging his racism for decades at this point (no mention of Charles R Saunders or Milton Davis, really?). The graphs were intended as pinpricks for this bubble, not as formal proof of popularity.

Thanks for this great post.

 

[SJB]

• Penguin Classics has published a volume of Smith

R.E. Howard, Heroes in the Wind: From Kull to Conan (Penguin Classics, 2009). It’s very well chosen, introduced and edited by John Clute.

 

[Bedrockgames]

R.E. Howard, Heroes in the Wind: From Kull to Conan (Penguin Classics, 2009). It’s very well chosen, introduced and edited by John Clute.

I always like the Penguin Classics but I haven't checked this one out