WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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The 24 rules were marketed very differently than any of the previous 5e books, they heavily pushed pre-orders and added perks and digital minis for Sigil (which was also heavily marketed at the time).

Whether they wanted or needed it to be the biggest/fastest et al seller, they haven't been very clear on what they are claiming nor how they calculated it.

I am great full for content sharing, the new books were just what I was expecting.
 

not sure that level is necessarily more practical / relevant. There are plenty people who got a bundle and maybe even a third copy for a VTT

And the same thing can happen with physical books, 1 person buying more than 1 copy... correct or is there a limit of 1 per customer?

The statement came from WotC, pretty sure that includes all distribution channels and classifications, this is not about Amazon now having it in the toys category rather than books

And, at least in tthe earnings call... they said books, right? So it's settled, at least at that point its clarified as books ..right?

If you do not want two speculate then don't. I would prefer for WotC to release meaningful numbers, but until they do we are stuck with what they release. So there is 'product' rather than 'book' and flat revenue for 2024 compared to 2023 when at least I would have expected a bump from a new set of core books, so let's see what 2025 brings.
You're not accounting for the ginormous totally unprecedented bump they got from Goty BG3. The fact that revenue didn't dip drastically and stayed relatively flat is probably at least in part due to sales of the new corebooks.
 


I'm just saying you weren't reallya D&D 5e customer or fan before '24 so it's not really shocking you didn't buy the new corebooks for a game you already disliked.
The last book from WotC I bought was the Book of Many Things (because I love the Deck of Many Things). Before that, it was Fizban's, was last ditch attempt to get something worthwhile from the line after the disappointment of Tasha's and especially Van Richten's Guide. Looking back, I regret buying Fizban's. I have however, as you know been keeping finger on WotC's pulse this whole time and have looked over the 5.5 PH and DMG (purchased by a friend of mine), so I feel I have sufficient information to decide how I feel about the replacement books.
 

Don’t know where you got that? It was reported as the fastest selling D&D book back in September surpassing Tasha’s for that.

Their Q4 Conference https://investor.hasbro.com/events/event-details/hasbro-fourth-quarter-2024-earnings-conference-call

From the Transcript

That was September apparently tashas is outshining it now although I only heard about it indirectly via bookscan.

It's caused issues on kickstarter and youtube apparently. Not everyone's interested in 2024 material and vice versa.

Probably a repeat n 3.5 vibes tbh. Online 3.5 is the definitive edition but 3.0 outsold it.
 


It does only matter in so far as WotC apparently cannot call it the fastest selling book in D&D history.
Oh good lord. Sure, let's focus on what's really important here . . . print books vs digital books.

What exactly is the point you are trying to make here? WotC is being dishonest or misleading? Digital books don't count? They're not really books?

The lengths fans go to sometimes to make a point, a point tangential to anything with meaning or sense.

2024 D&D is selling well. Print, digital, both . . . splitting hairs over digital vs print is very silly, IMO. Especially since NONE OF US KNOW, as WotC doesn't share that kind of data.

Sheesh.
 

That was September apparently tashas is outshining it now although I only heard about it indirectly via bookscan.

It's caused issues on kickstarter and youtube apparently. Not everyone's interested in 2024 material and vice versa.

Probably a repeat n 3.5 vibes tbh. Online 3.5 is the definitive edition but 3.0 outsold it.
Anecdotal (of course) as it is, I know that I certainly haven't seen anything like universal acclaim and enthusiastic acceptance of 5.5 from the 5.0 community at large.
 

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