D&D General Limiting Utility Cantrips

[DrJawaPhD]

That hits on niche protection: there's a feature that exists (AT's Mage Hand Legerdemain) that specifically allows you to use thieves tools to disarm traps and pick locks with Mage Hand. Allowing mage hand to do so without that feature buffs the cantrip greatly, and invalidates a big feature of that subclass.

No one is talking about using Mage Hand to disarm traps or pick locks, we're talking about Mage Hand purposely blowing up traps since it can't take damage. This isn't always wise, if blowing the trap would destroy something valuable. Also as noted by someone above, it's not particularly different than using a long pole

Whether this is overpowered or not depends on the playstyle at your table

 

[Tonguez]

I don't think basic attack cantrips should be limited. They are just a way of letting casters participate combat in a way that feels on brand, rather than having them have to throw darts like a 1e MU.

which is why I think all spells should require a roll of some kind, including cantrips. An archer has to roll for attack so a Sorcerer should too, even if that attack is a poison spray cantrip instead of a poison arrow
spells that require a spell attack roll a good - but must of those shouldn't be cantrips.

 

[James Gasik]

To be fair, I prefer attack roll cantrips. I don't know what it is, but I've seen so many enemies save against Sacred Flame I think Clerics would be better off throwing rocks at their enemies!

 

[Horwath]

To be fair, I prefer attack roll cantrips. I don't know what it is, but I've seen so many enemies save against Sacred Flame I think Clerics would be better off throwing rocks at their enemies!

one of the things I like about 4E is that everything is an attack roll.

 

[Horwath]

If you designed the trap for the dungeon, you'd expect large (or even giant) rats I would think, so keep the weight more than 10 lbs would make sense IMO.

Otherwise, just imagine the PCs come along and find a dead rat in a trap because the rat set it off... lucky PCs and annoyed trap designer.

most landmines today have bigger pressure trigger, so small animals do not trigger it.

but we have to count in small adventurers and their low end limit in weight, that would put it in 30-35lb range, well above mage hand limit, even if you drop 10lb from 30ft

 

[Distracted DM]

No one is talking about using Mage Hand to disarm traps or pick locks

The post I replied to was literally saying "I wouldn't let mage hand disarm traps or pick locks unless the player had a good reason to be able to see the mechanism from a distance"

 

[DrJawaPhD]

The post I replied to was literally saying "I wouldn't let mage hand disarm traps or pick locks unless the player had a good reason to be able to see the mechanism from a distance"

My bad I guess I should've quoted that person then

 

[ezo]

most landmines today have bigger pressure trigger, so small animals do not trigger it.

but we have to count in small adventurers and their low end limit in weight, that would put it in 30-35lb range, well above mage hand limit, even if you drop 10lb from 30ft

Yep, frankly mage hand can't be used for many such things in my games. Either they require more force than mage hand can do, or they require more intricate movements than mage hand is capable of.

Exceptions are Arcane Trickster and Telekinetic feat.

 

[aco175]

No one is talking about using Mage Hand to disarm traps or pick locks, we're talking about Mage Hand purposely blowing up traps since it can't take damage. This isn't always wise, if blowing the trap would destroy something valuable. Also as noted by someone above, it's not particularly different than using a long pole

Whether this is overpowered or not depends on the playstyle at your table

There could be a nerf mechanic that does not let you use mage hand again until after a short rest if it is destroyed. Give it 1hp and see how much PCs want to destroy it. Same with light cantrip if it is destroyed or countered.

To be fair, I prefer attack roll cantrips. I don't know what it is, but I've seen so many enemies save against Sacred Flame I think Clerics would be better off throwing rocks at their enemies!

I always like to roll dice and liked this mechanic. Most people like to roll dice instead of watching the DM roll them.

 

[jmartkdr2]

IMO cantrips aren't really relevant to D&D's balance issues. If it did become a problem I'd maybe limit them to PB times per day.

Honestly the only cantrip I've ever seen become an issue is Guidance and I honestly think it should be a first level spell that works like Bless but for Ability Checks.

I don’t think most impulses to limit cantrips are really about balance. It’s just that some people don’t like it when magic is casual, but they acknowledge that removing cantrips entirely would be a balance issue. So they’re looking for a way to make even mage hand feel like a big-ish deal without making wizards a 1/day character.

Finding the sweet spot is tough.