WotC Chris Perkins announces Retirement from Dungeons and Dragons

Over on Twitter and Bluesky, Chris Perkins has announced his retirement from Dungeons and Dragons.

Chris Perkins started officially working for Wizards of the Coast in 1997 as an Editor for Dungeon Magazine. Since then, he has functioned as the Editor in Chief of D&D Periodicals, A Senior Producer, and eventually landing as the Senior Story Editor over D&D 5e and Game Architect on D&D 5e 2024.

He also is known for acting as one of the Dungeons Masters for Acquisitions, Incorporated.

Personally, I'll miss the guy's work.

 

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By this logic, 5e sold well because of all the youngsters on the design team?
5E's initial success was largely due to bringing back the GenXers that had abandoned D&D (either long ago or during 4E). It has only really been since the pandemic since the polls we see sometimes have really shown major growth in younger millennials and GenZ adopting the game in droves. Sticking with the design philosophy and designers that made 5E successful over a decade ago is probably not a strategy that will continue to produce success.

I would actually be interested in a new set of polls about demographics. I think it has been a couple years since WotC put out their last one.
 

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5E's initial success was largely due to bringing back the GenXers that had abandoned D&D (either long ago or during 4E). It has only really been since the pandemic since the polls we see sometimes have really shown major growth in younger millennials and GenZ adopting the game in droves. Sticking with the design philosophy and designers that made 5E successful over a decade ago is probably not a strategy that will continue to produce success.

I would actually be interested in a new set of polls about demographics. I think it has been a couple years since WotC put out their last one.

Counter argument woukd be 5.0 success was because of its design. Any drastic deviation from it will alienate its fan base.

I run into the younger players pretty much weekly at the store we go to. Actually talked to some yesterday. They were playing 2014. Level 1 new campaign.

They're basically playing the same way virtually every group I've seen since 3E has played. More or less casuals, group of friends just doing whatever.

They don't care to much about builds at least to the extent we can here.

5.0 biggest D&D ever and I suspect a lot have not actually switched to 2024 yet. Talking about D&D elsewhere you have to specify what one you're talking about.

2014 version may have trained a new generation of grogs. They like what 2014 us offering. 2024 leans more towards the hard-core fans imho which might alienate the casuals.

It's also the highest powered D&D phb ever imho. 3E had issues but it was mostly higher level theory crafting using non core books.5.5 you can blunder into things reasonably low level. Not to same extent as 3.5 Druid but that was kind if the exception and few people played druids anyway.

3E, 4E wouldn't work these days even of revamped presentation and modernized. To complex.

I was asked about will 5.5 succeed as others are aware it's not universally loved. They dropped money on it.
Said IDK I suspect it will last less than 10 years but longer than 3 or 4. If it pulls a 3.0 or 4E we have a fairly definitive result.

Basically be very careful about making assumptions about what new players actually like especially if you don't have much experience interacting with them.

I'm running more beer and pretzels mode for them for most part. Boss fights o can go 3.5 mode bit o don't go to far down that hole. I have 3 groups only 2 players are veterans.
 
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Counter argument woukd be 5.0 success was because of its design. Any drastic deviation from it will alienate its fan base.

I run into the younger players pretty much weekly at the store we go to. Actually talked to some yesterday. They were playing 2014. Level 1 new campaign.

They're basically playing the same way virtually every group I've seen since 3E has played. More or less casuals, group of friends just doing whatever.

They don't care to much about builds at least to the extent we can here.

5.0 biggest D&D ever and I suspect t a lot have not actually switched to 2024 yet. Talking about D&D elsewhere you have to specify what one you're talking about.

2014 version may have trained a new generation of gross. They like what 2014 us offering. 2024 leans more towards the hard-core fans imho which might alienate the casuals.

It's also the highest powered D&D phb ever inho. 3E had issues but it was mostly higher level theory crafting using non cirr books.5.t you can blunder into things reasonably low level. Not to same extent as 3.5 Druid but that was kind if the exception and few people played druids anyway.

3E, 4E wouldn't work these days even of revamped presentation and modernized. To complex.

I was asked about will 5.5 succeed as others are aware it's not universally loved. They dropped money on it.
. Said IDK I suspect it will last less tgan 10 years but longer tgan 3 or 4. If it pulls a 3.0 or 4E we have a fairly definitive result.

Basically be very careful about making assumptions about what new players actually like especially if you don't have much experience interacting with them.

I'm running more beer and pretzels mode for them for most part. Boss fights o can go 3.5 mode bit o don't go to far down that hole. I have 3 groups only 2 players are veterans.
I think there are a couple things happening there. First, there is a lot of market penetration of 5.14, and WotC hobbled itself by essentially telling people 5.24 was the same. Of course if you tell people there is no reason to upgrade, they won't.

5E is a very easy game to learn to play, and it does not ask much of its players in a "homework" kind of way, so it is popular with casual players.

But 5E has been treading water creatively for years now, likely because it was headed up by people who had been making D&D for 30 years. Even creative people lean into their biases and nostalgia.
 

I think there are a couple things happening there. First, there is a lot of market penetration of 5.14, and WotC hobbled itself by essentially telling people 5.24 was the same. Of course if you tell people there is no reason to upgrade, they won't.

5E is a very easy game to learn to play, and it does not ask much of its players in a "homework" kind of way, so it is popular with casual players.

But 5E has been treading water creatively for years now, likely because it was headed up by people who had been making D&D for 30 years. Even creative people lean into their biases and nostalgia.

Erm they were really only somewhat faithful to source material first 2 or 3 years.

After that they basically retconned everything.

What's your idea of creatively?

Personally I lije new things up to a point. Eg Gith origin story shouldn't be tampered with to much unless you're doing a new setting like 3.5 Eberron where things were specifically different.

They made more new settings than 3.5 and 4E as well. Quality may not be there ymmv but they tried at least.Eberron, Ravinca, There's and Wildemont were good imho even if they weren't my cup of tea for some of them.

Basically I expect certain things from "default" D&D.
 


As many do, and should.

If people are fans of a thing, why would it need to change.

I don't mind new up to a point. As long as it's sonething lije Eberron.

If you're blowing up the core stuff I like that's a problem. Can they do it sure they own the IP.

Didn't work out well last time they did tgat and from the sounds of it functionally dead as a dodo in terms of attracting players.

I can run OSR fine and get players (I've got 6 in 2E game Thursday).
 

As many do, and should.

If people are fans of a thing, why would it need to change.
How many people? There are fans of Dark Sun, but they never made that for 5E.

I think this line of argument is a good example of the myopic view of our cohort. We think what we want is best for the game. I think that is wrong. i think if you look at fantasy in all its popular forms, it looks very little like D&D.
 

I don't mind new up to a point. As long as it's sonething lije Eberron.

If you're blowing up the core stuff I like that's a problem. Can they do it sure they own the IP.

Didn't work out well last time they did tgat and from the sounds of it functionally dead as a dodo in terms of attracting players.

I can run OSR fine and get players (I've got 6 in 2E game Thursday).

Hey, if the market is starved for a "GenZ" RPG, I'm sure they dont need the D&D name to make it happen. Right?
 

How many people? There are fans of Dark Sun, but they never made that for 5E.

Yeah, and we know why.

I think that is wrong. i think if you look at fantasy in all its popular forms, it looks very little like D&D.

Perfect, design the game and leave D&D to be D&D and lets see how it goes.

(NOTE: I no longer care what they mutate D&D into, so honestly they can go nuts, but the constant stream of 'oh yes but if its successful its better' when we look at what is deemed progress, gets as old and tiresome as you feel about a more conservative approach.)
 


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