Overrated/Underrated Geek Media

[Deset Gled]

How did you feel about Cloud Atlas?

Loved it. Probably deserves of a second watch to fully appreciate it, but I have no idea when that will ever happen.

There's interesting discussion to be had about long form movies vs. miniseries vs. modern streaming series that could be had about the form it was released in. But I'm content to just say that I like the occasional long form movie, they don't happen very often these days, and this one did a good job of hitting the spot for me (much more so than any of the super-long super-hero movies did.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

How do you expect people to respond when you lead with statements like this?

I mean, if you say something that's obviously not factual as if it were, what do you expect? I find it hard to believe you thought that was true on anything but a "how I feel" level when you posted it.

It's not like I'm attacking "audiences" or something, is it? In fact what I've done is found you an actual source of actual actual audience opinions, which can, to a large degree, be relied on to represent "median" American audiences and their reactions to movies. I even put in a link.

It's not factual or reasonable to claim that the concept of "review bombing", which is a very real thing that happens regularly, is being used to discredit the idea that audiences have opinions generally. It's nonsensical, specifically, to say that. Particularly to claim that it happens "often" that genuine audience reactions are "discounted" because of it. You provide no evidence to support what is a pretty wild claim there. The only thing I've seen "discounted" ever because of that is the audience RT score, which should be treated with caution, obviously.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I don’t think it gets more perfect than goodfellas but I also do think it isn’t about having a tight story. To me it is his masterpiece (I would rate it even higher than Taxi Driver, Mean Streets or Raging Bull: all great movies that I could see others rating higher than Goodfellas. That said, if people dislike the story or feel it is ungainly, fair enough. I don’t quite know how I would label Goodfellas but I quite like the storytelling approach he takes in that and Casino.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don’t think it gets more perfect than goodfellas but I also do think it isn’t about having a tight story. To me it is his masterpiece (I would rate it even higher than Taxi Driver, Mean Streets or Raging Bull: all great movies that I could see others rating higher than Goodfellas. That said, if people dislike the story or feel it is ungainly, fair enough. I don’t quite know how I would label Goodfellas but I quite like the storytelling approach he takes in that and Casino.

Yup. Sometimes a movie is more about the vibes than sharply-paced, precision storytelling, and Goodfellas is a very "vibes" movie as well as being a movie that's got a tremendous story with a lot of ideas and heart in it, even if it isn't utterly efficiently told.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I mean, if you say something that's obviously not factual as if it were, what do you expect? I find it hard to believe you thought that was true on anything but a "how I feel" level when you posted it.

I don’t think what I said was untrue. And would be happy to talk about disagreements over what the facts are. But I am also not going to talk to a poster who thinks they can essentially yell at and talk down to other posters. You have been rude to me many times over the course of this exchange. People aren’t your punching bag. I think it is fair for poster to have a basic expectation of respect from other posters here. I have no problem with you thinking I am wrong, saying something not grounded in fact, etc. I do have a problem with how you have been talking to me and other posters lately

 

[payn]

Casino is definitely overrated.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think it is fair for poster to have a basic expectation of respect from other posters here.

To be honest, I feel like your posts frequently don't show any respect for other posters, and casually and often without engagement off-handedly dismiss complex arguments, actual research, and so on, no matter how politely phrased, but I've always written it off as simply "posting style" on your part, and not intentional.

I mean, would you feel better if instead of "nonsense" I rephrased to "fundamentally untrue"?

 

[Bedrockgames]

Loved it. Probably deserves of a second watch to fully appreciate it, but I have no idea when that will ever happen.

There's interesting discussion to be had about long form movies vs. miniseries vs. modern streaming series that could be had about the form it was released in. But I'm content to just say that I like the occasional long form movie, they don't happen very often these days, and this one did a good job of hitting the spot for me (much more so than any of the super-long super-hero movies did.

I saw it years ago and am still trying to decide how I feel

I mean, if you say something that's obviously not factual as if it were, what do you expect? I find it hard to believe you thought that was true on anything but a "how I feel" level when you posted it.

It's not like I'm attacking "audiences" or something, is it? In fact what I've done is found you an actual source of actual actual audience opinions, which can, to a large degree, be relied on to represent "median" American audiences and their reactions to movies. I even put in a link.

It's not factual or reasonable to claim that the concept of "review bombing", which is a very real thing that happens regularly, is being used to discredit the idea that audiences have opinions generally. It's nonsensical, specifically, to say that. Particularly to claim that it happens "often" that genuine audience reactions are "discounted" because of it. You provide no evidence to support what is a pretty wild claim there. The only thing I've seen "discounted" ever because of that is the audience RT score, which should be treated with caution, obviously.

I never said review bombing doesn’t happen. I said it gets used to dismiss audience reactions (and this is obviously difficult to prove but I do know I have seen lots of companies leap to this explanation when a film isn’t doing well or people seem to be reacting to it negatively). Even if review bombing occurring that doesn’t mean the criticisms being raised shouldn’t be entertained

 

[Bedrockgames]

Casino is definitely overrated.

I think it is generally not well thought of

 

[Ruin Explorer]

(and this is obviously difficult to prove but I do know I have seen lots of companies leap to this explanation when a film isn’t doing well or people seem to be reacting to it negatively)

Have you got any actual examples of this at all? I.e. company saying review-bombing on RT is hitting their bottom-line, and it doesn't seem to be true that they're being review-bombed. Because unless you think it's untrue, surely that's a reasonable thing for them to say?

I can provide actual examples of audience review-bombing (this should link directly to the film section):

List of review-bombing incidents - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It seems like if false claims of review-bombing happen "often", it should be easy to find examples of it, not difficult, surely? I mean, at least examples where you believe that the claim re: review-bombing is untrue, even if it can't be hard-proven.

Even if review bombing occurring that doesn’t mean the criticisms being raised shouldn’t be entertained

It does mean the RT audience score should be dismissed as an authority for that movie, though.

Instead you have to listen to actual specific criticisms, and you don't rely on generalized freely-accessible review systems, which are easy to game.