D&D General 1e feel for 5E

[cbwjm]

First. No hit point gains except for constitution bonus after tenth and this means the Tough feat is banned. On Beyond you with have figure you max HP for level 10. Then put that into the override max HP slot.

Just a note that you can change hit points from fixed to manual, otherwise (from memory) using long rests and resetting hit points resets the override max HP slot.

 

[toucanbuzz]

Late to the discussion, but genuine thoughts having had a similar feeling when I was running Pathfinder/3.5 and 5E was on the horizon. I wanted a system that sparked creativity, "outside the box" thinking when gaming, versus "optimal builds" and "charge in and hack away with console buttons A, B, and C." Disclaimer: I am fairly happy with where 5E went compared to 3E.

1. Characters die, buy-in. They were easy to roll up and died just as easily. It was a bragging right and badge of honor to have a character that genuinely made it to 20th level. Folks have to buy-in or it's not going to be fun. If you expect the DM to bail you out every time your character should die with a "oh, but the enemies take you captive" or "oh, but there's a secret quest to restore your soul" or "oh, but your backstory was so compelling," it's not the right game for this concept.
2. Save or die. Trademark. You're buying in to the idea that no matter how well you planned out your character, they might encounter Type E or whatever poison and automatically die. Monsters have features that pretty much kill you. Not saying best design, but that's the hardcore feel. For undead, don't give a save against their drains. If they hit, ouch. You'll be scared shiteless against those types of undead and probably take extreme steps before entering into battle against them.
3. Niche roles. Each class has a spotlight role. Only rogues can disable traps. Only fighters can attack multiple times. Parties that didn't, or couldn't, diversify had a harder time. Not saying this is the best way to do it, but it's a 1E vs 5E feel. Bring back multi-class restrictions (e.g. humans can't, elves and dwarves limited to X, Y, Z).
4. Monsters are immune. Change your monsters to have 1E features. 5E really wanted everyone playing to feel special in combat. It sucks when you can't do a damn thing against a particular enemy. So, instead of outright immunity to whatever, it morphed to advantage this and half damage that. But, life sucks. Iron Golems resist everything. Bring back magic resistance. Monsters can be puzzles and certain characters can and will shine against particular foes. Players might diversify tactics in response. "Oh, the golem resists my damage spells...well crap. I made a one-trick pony character. If I just had that spell that dug a pit, I could've trapped it."

As to OP's original points, HP don't really matter if you have save or die and monsters that look like their original counterparts (e.g. demons with nasty spells, magic resistance, teleports). I wouldn't change healing (robs you of time-limited quests) for the same reason.

 

[Clint_L]

But, life sucks.

"Life sucks" so your game that you play to have fun should also suck?

 

[toucanbuzz]

"Life sucks" so your game that you play to have fun should also suck?

Not endorsing a play style, adding to the conversation to morph 5E to look like 1E. And yeah, for different folks different strokes. What entertains one group of players might not entertain another.

I've had conversations with my current D&D group, not a one of whom played AD&D, as to what older editions were about, why folks wax nostalgic. It cycles back to the "badge of honor." You don't always win, or contribute, or have a chance to succeed. There will be confrontations where you character is 100% useless, and hopefully your buddy can step up. Or, you might die on the next d20 roll despite all your cleverness. You might start out with 1 hit point. Yet, somehow, despite the odds, your character survives, that's special. Some folks might gravitate towards that, others away. D&D maxim: make the game your own. If I tell people that "life sucks" is a bad way to play, I might be judging their player style based on my own. There's no winners in that argument because everyone's correct: you do you.

 

[jasper]

I understand this thread as not changing 5e, but simple things that a table can do to feel more like 1e.

Maybe reflavor ALL feats as a custom magic item that the player can purchase. Thus an ability score improvement is instead a book (Librum, Manual, etcetera), or an Ioun Stone, or whatever. A different feat benefit is a unique magic sword that grants the benefit (which can also be summoned to hand from afar). And so on.

I like this. I love this. Here have an internet cookie.

 

[fuindordm]

I think one of the big mood shifts, that happened sometime between 3rd and 4th, is the stripping away of consequences from player choices and actions. You can be any race, any class, put your ability scores anywhere you want, specialize in any type of magic, and still be competent at everything you set out to do. And if your low-level character has a weakness, then soon enough you can take a feat or a subclass that shores it up. Likewise, the use of magic is largely free of consequences. Spells are never dangerous to the caster, and never powerful enough to hurt a player's feelings by denying them the thrill of combat for more than a round or two. 5e combat feels more like a Champions slugfest than a (pseudo-)medieval battle.

First edition was all about niche protection and consequences. It was arguably too restrictive (e.g. dwarves can never be magic-users) but at the same time it gave a reason to experiment with different classes and tactical approaches to the dungeon.

So if I wanted to AD&D-ify 5th edition, I would try to do a few things in addition to many of the ideas mentioned above:
1. Give the different species real advantages and disadvantages compared to the human baseline, without restricting class choice.
2. Reinforce the meaning of ability scores: Str boosts melee damage only, Dex boosts ranged damage only, Int always powers arcane magic, Wis always powers divine magic. No feats or subclasses can permit a PC to just shift all their main attacks and powers onto a single ability score.
3. Rework the whole spell list. Spells that are relatively powerful for their level should carry a cost, consequence, or risk. Some spells are "save or suck" which is why you travel as a team. Knowing such spells are out there motivates players to use tactics, not just rush in and trust to their bloated HP and spell slot pool to carry them through.

 

[jasper]

bloodtide...This is more modern thinking. The idea that The Official Rules must be placed on a pedestal and worshiped. Everyone must know all the rules and the game must be "by the rules". Look...sure, great ideas for some games. MODERN games.....
We had gamers who all hail the rules, the problem is 1e was such a hot mess you could find a counter rule, in the book. Or the rule was so bad, we skipped them. Except when Oofta dm...... ;0

XP tables by class. To get to second level Fighters need 2,001, rogues need 1,251, magic uses need 2,5001 and clerics need 1,501.

Now the worst change. BLACK AND WHITE ART only.

 

[Li Shenron]

1E Feel for 5E

It's quite difficult to do such exercise because "feel" is different for different people.

For me, the two biggest feel factors are character classes and combat rules. But I think for you it might be everything else. So if you use 1e classes and 1e combat rules, am I playing 5e with 1e feel, or 1e with 5e feel?

 

[GrimCo]

We did that in 1e - that was a pretty common practice.

If you're really going to make it like 1e, the party has to have a ton of hirelings. Basically, minions you can hire for cheap that will do anything you ask without question. That's how so many of our 1e characters survived to have long careers.

That and lots of 10' poles.

Yea, in essence, everyone runs multiple characters, one "main" and few hirelings who are just glorified meat shields / trap magnets. Hirelings who would do anything without thinking about their safety never had much sense imho.

11 foot poles. That extra foot counts.

 

[dave2008]

We did that in 1e - that was a pretty common practice.

If you're really going to make it like 1e, the party has to have a ton of hirelings. Basically, minions you can hire for cheap that will do anything you ask without question. That's how so many of our 1e characters survived to have long careers.

That and lots of 10' poles.

I always hear about this, but in the 10 or so years we played 1e in the 80s-90s our group never had hirelings of any kind. I am not sure if we missed out, or we were better by subtraction.