An examination of player agency

[Micah Sweet]

Who do you think writes these games? Who do you think GMs them? Do you think they are written by unhappy players and then forced on bad GMs by their groups?

I wrote one of these games. My game Other Worlds states very clearly that the GM cannot override the rules and that all dice rolls and modifiers/difficulties should be open and visible. The stakes of each roll are also declared in advance. Players have metacurrency that allows them to modify/reroll dice.

I didn't do this because I was made to, or for other people to GM, or because I don't trust myself when GMing. I did it because I personally find it fun to GM a game where players have more agency and where the outcome of conflicts are not decided or vetoed by me,

Ok. To me my fun as a GM is to create and present a world in which the players can do anything they want through their PCs. My players seem to feel this provides them a great deal of agency in my game. Are they wrong? Why or why not?

 

[pemerton]

I see what you are doing. I don’t like it.

You mean, inviting @Bedrockgames to adhere to the standards that he relentlessly tries to impose upon other posters?

 

[Campbell]

In the vast majority of Narrativist games the GM has content and scene framing authority. They are just instructed in how to utilize it. You provided authority but only to serve particular purposes.

But like at the end of day if you enjoy world building for its own sake you should run a game designed for that instead. We have to start from the assumption that people play and run games because they are motivated to run or play those games.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why is what you think agency is more significant, or more reasonable, that what the OP of the thread thinks agency is?

It isn't, but if we can't agree on the definition (and it appears we can't), then this isn't going to go anywhere.

 

[soviet]

I suppose I mean the power to worldbuild, particularly with no regard for a particular played PC's in-world ability to do so. In many games this power is reserved for the GM. If a game doesn't want them to have it, then I guess the players do?

So what you meant by 'worldbuilding powers' was 'the power to worldbuild'? That's circular. Until you provide at least some sense of what you mean, this is impossible to engage with.

 

[soviet]

Ok. To me my fun as a GM is to create and present a world in which the players can do anything they want through their PCs. My players seem to feel this provides them a great deal of agency in my game. Are they wrong? Why or why not?

?
Which games do you think do not allow this? Mine certainly allows it.

 

[pemerton]

It isn't

In that case, perhaps you share my frustration at people complaining about how the OP has characterised player agency, as if it was a less reasonable characterisation than the one they are putting forward.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Really? Aren't you one of a billion posters who's told me that what I think is a railroad really isn't?

I don't agree with your definition, but I can't argue against your right to believe it.

 

[pemerton]

?
Which games do you think do not allow this? Mine certainly allows it.

Right. We now seem to have arrived in the territory where the contrast is being drawn between RPGs in which players are allowed to declare moves and RPGs where they are not, as if that is all that there is to be said about player agency in RPGing.

 

[pemerton]

I don't agree with your definition, but I can't argue against your right to believe it.

But you keep telling me I'm wrong. Whereas, by the standards of your post that I quoted, that is not simply "having a discussion".