An examination of player agency

[pemerton]

Particularly when we have Vincent in other contexts designing OSR material and talking about how much he loves Moldvay.

Right! I mean, Luke and Thor hate classic D&D so much that they designed a game inspired by it!

 

[Micah Sweet]

But you keep telling me I'm wrong. Whereas, by the standards of your post that I quoted, that is not simply "having a discussion".

Because I think you are wrong, from my perspective. I would not define railroad the way you do, but everything we're discussing here, like most things we talk about, is subjective and about personal preference.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Similarly, narrow definitions of "railroading" that actively close off options for "what is railroading" that otherwise would be open; and that present themselves as it should be obvious that they are correct; frustrate people.

Where by people I mean me.

So you would expand the definition of a term which is almost always used negatively to include games that people enjoy and don't think are railroads? What is the purpose of that? Can't you just...not play a game you consider a railroad?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Good Narrativist GMs at least. The context for these conversations was "let's do Narrativism". Trying to extrapolate them to a general audience is not a very sound idea.

Particularly when we have Vincent in other contexts designing OSR material and talking about how much he loves Moldvay.

Fair enough. Didn't know the context. I apologize.

 

[soviet]

Do your players get to affect the setting outside of their PCs (once play begins)? If not, do you believe they possess agency? Mine do not, but they and I believe they have agency.

In Other Worlds they do explicitly have the ability to add elements to the gameworld - eg if they are an elf, they get to make up stuff about elven culture and history, etc. It's specifically a group worldbuilding type game.

But when I run other games they do not. I think your perception that people generally in this thread have been talking about this kind of group worldbuilding is incorrect. I certainly haven't been. It is not a necessary ingredient for higher-agency games.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You could tell the players that their PCs need to eat without having rules for it.

I mean, I'm guessing that your game has no rules for getting filthy, sweaty and stinky, yet I'm sure sometimes you tell the players that their PCs, if they wish to be clean and presentable, need to wash and change.

So why do you have rules for hunger?

I suppose eating is more important, in more situations, then cleanliness? And if I tell my players their PCs need to eat, and there are no consequences for not doing so (no rules, you see), why should they do it? It would be nice, but a lot of people don't bother with stuff that has no concrete effect.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Right! I mean, Luke and Thor hate classic D&D so much that they designed a game inspired by it!

What game? I'm not familiar with Luke and Thor.

 

[soviet]

I suppose eating is more important, in more situations, then cleanliness? And if I tell my players their PCs need to eat, and there are no consequences for not doing so (no rules, you see), why should they do it? It would be nice, but a lot of people don't bother with stuff that has no concrete effect.

I take it you also have rules for sleeping, pooing, weapon sharpening, etc?

 

[soviet]

What game? I'm not familiar with Luke and Thor.

The Burning Wheel genre, and Torchbearer specifically

 

[Emberashh]

I take it you also have rules for sleeping, pooing, weapon sharpening, etc?

Every game should have pooping rules.