D&D (2024) 2024 - Do magic weapons bypass resistance now?

[mellored]

In the 1980s I encountered my first Jackalwere. I was a fighter named Dryken DeLerosh - a son of a Thayan Red Wizard that had been changed to Lawful Good by a Helm of Opposite Alignment - going from the most selfish and cruel being to the most noble self sacrificing personality I could must. Our thief was scouting just ahead of the group when he fell into a pit trap. The DM and the player went into another room ... and the DM came back. When we heard nothing the party followed and the wizard took a look into the pit - and fell unconcious ... into the pit. Dryken didn't look ... he lept. He landed in the pit to find a 'werewolf' biting into the corpse of the thief while the wizard (who died just from the 30 foot fall) lay in a crumbled heap. The DM made me make a save to avoid falling asleep when I met its gaze - which I made against the odds - and then the beast attacked. My first attack hit, but did nothing.

And if you had a magic weapon it wouldn't of been very interesting.

For instance, my first experience with werewolves was 3.5 whej i was playing an Artificer and kept handing out +1 magic weapon buffs. Werewolves just seemed like slightly tougher goblins. No puzzles to solve.

I didn't realize till long afterwards that they where supposed to be on very different levels of creature.

Giving them a weakness to silver makes sense.
Giving them a weakness to magic weapon doesn't.

And there should still be a Flee action. Dead characters can't recover from setbacks.

 

[jgsugden]

And if you had a magic weapon it wouldn't of been very interesting...

Again, you're entirely missing my point when you jump to this as your first argument.

Wolves are pretty pointless foes when your PCs all fly. Does that mean we shouldn't have wolves? No, you just shouldn't rely upon them for a challenge when they are not level appropriate.

However - if your first encounter with a Jackalwere is one where you do not have a magic weapon ... and the next is one where you do ... you see progression. You appreciate the benefit of the magic weapon. The Jackalwere loses significance ... as the weapon gains it.

Now, the Jackalwere is just another thing to beat on and the magic weapon is less significant to the PC because it is a nice to have, not something that enables you. That is a loss.

 

[Stalker0]

They no longer help beyond the +1.
But less monsters have BPS resistance.

What do you mean beyond the +1? So magic weapons do bypass BPS resistance?

 

[MerricB]

What do you mean beyond the +1? So magic weapons do bypass BPS resistance?

Magic weapons give a +1 to hit and damage. That helps you! But against all monsters.

Very few monsters have resistance or immunity to normal weapons now.

 

[MerricB]

The thing that infuriated me was they increased the hit points for the shadow, to make up for the loss of resistance to nonmagical weapons...

...but they kept in the resistances to elemental damage from spellcasters.

 

[SteveC]

That is a change in 5.5E. For me, it makes basic magic weapons even less interesting.

 

[mellored]

Again, you're entirely missing my point when you jump to this as your first argument.

I'm not. Your missing my argument.

However - if your first encounter with a Jackalwere is one where you do not have a magic weapon ...

that's the issue. The "if" is probably 50/50.

The first time you encounterrd them you didn't have a magic weapon.
The first time I encountered them I did.

and the next is one where you do ... you see progression. You appreciate the benefit of the magic weapon. The Jackalwere loses significance ... as the weapon gains it.

And the same thing can be done with Silvered weapons. Or any other more interesting thing that your not likely to be using anyways.

Also, you still need to survive the first fight. Because if the first time you see a creature you die, there is no chance of progression.

 

[jgsugden]

I'm not. Your missing my argument.

that's the issue. The "if" is probably 50/50...

No. It isn't. It is either 0% or 100%.

Why? because it isn't random. There is no probably. There is certainty.

DMs design adventures. They don't just randomly assemble them. The DM should know when designing an encounter whether the PCs have a magic weapon. Thus the DM knows they have a magic weapon (and the ability is not significant), or they know the PCs do not and it requires the DM to build around the situation to give them options to deal with a seemingly unbeatable foe - which is a cinematic and dynamic situation that the players can wrestle, beat and celebrate.

That is part of the point that I am making. When the Jackalwere had this ability it gave the DM a tool that was best used when it had relevance.

You can, after that point, use it to show progression to the players by showing they have progressed beyond where that challenge can haunt them ... but using it when it has relevance and when it requires PCs to do something more than whack off with their weapon makes it a significant, useful, dynamic and challenging option. That is a great thing. Or it was before they stripped it from the rules. Now we have to houserule it back ... and many newer DMs will not get a clue that that is even an option. It is a loss to the game.

 

[mellored]

DMs design adventures. They don't just randomly assemble them.

I randomly played an Artificer, which handed out +1 magic weapon buffs.
And your assuming the DM had a whole 20 levels planned out, and needs to be aware of Jackalwere before he starts a game.

Is it that hard to imagine that a DM might give a magic weapon for completing the first quest, then come up with Jackalwere's for the second?

When the Jackalwere had this ability it gave the DM a tool that was best used when it had relevance.

And why wouldn't that work if it's a Silvered weapon instead of Magic weapon?

Then you do the trick twice, once with Silver and Jackalwere and once with Adimantium and Golems.

As was, once you got a magical weapon for Jackalwere, you spoiled the effect of the Golem.

 

[Questianor]

I agree that "any magic can hurt this" was never a very interesting puzzle. It also just sucks for martials especially when casters have unlimited damage-dealing (and scaling, not that it matters much because you'll likely have magic weapons by then) cantrips now. If your character was stuck in that pit with eldritch blast or sorcerous burst at his fingertips against a jackalwere you quite possibly wouldn't even have found out it was supposed to have any immunities. I think the martial/caster balance is the main motivation for the changes here, it just feels bad to say casters can just blast all day and bypass all these BPS immunities but martials are naughty word out of luck. Not that I have a problem with cantrips (I like them) but at least in your AD&D game a caster would have had to burn a spell slot if he wanted to bypass its immunities like that.


The idea of making it immune to non-silver instead of non-magic weapons is maybe a little more interesting in the puzzle sense, but still has the same martial/caster problem above (unless you make it immune to spell damage, but then you have an enemy which can only actually be hurt by a weapon type the players may not have or whatever environmental damage the DM arbritrarily decides is somehow stronger the the creature's hide that can shrug off mace blows and fireballs, which is probably not good game design and definitely not something WotC wants to try). It's also moot because I'm pretty sure 2024 jackalweres/werewolves/etc. just don't have any immunities.