BrOSR

I also think he touches on exactly why even those who don't explicitely support gatekeeping, discrimination, mysogny and so on in the OSR community still make those targeted by those actions feel unwelcome... You aren't taking a stance against something that is exclusionary and so in esence you are supporting it... especially when you choose to hide from or ignore the actions of others that promote these values while promoting and/or praising their products without acknowledging any problematic issues with the author or company.
For what it’s worth, it’s the reason I’ve never felt comfortable associating myself with anything in the OSR broadly speaking, as it definitely had an undertone—to me at least, I’m not implying this is a general statement about anyone else—that it was fairly reactionary.

While I suppose it is objectively reactionary in a gaming sense—specifically to the release of 4E, it also seems to have appealed towards some who are reactionary in a broader sense. Now, whether that was intentional or not, seems irrelevant.

What started, at least in my opinion, as a movement rejecting a trend in game mechanics and an embrace of legacy systems, has, for whatever reason, also attracted some who also reject the valid criticisms of many TTRPGs as having discriminatory concepts built-in to the games.
 

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I also believe his reviews are paid for... so it may be a position of money being more important than principles.
Some of them are and it's always disclosed. As for the money, I imagine he's not making nearly enough to compromise his personal principals. I work for plenty of people who's opinions make my skin crawl, but as long as they keep it to their self and we can get work done, I stay professional.

When it comes to toxicity in the community, those that salivate at the bit to tear down creators over the slightest grievance is what I want to see ejected.
 

When it comes to toxicity in the community, those that salivate at the bit to tear down creators over the slightest grievance is what I want to see ejected.

Different strokes for different folks... i don't see this enough in OSR culture for it to become my main gripe... especially compared to the issues of racism, homophobia, transphobia and mysogny along with the willingness of the bigger names in the community to accept it by trying to stay neutral.
 
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That’s fine, that’s your take on it. I’m not a fan of statements of neutrality.
Understood.

One of my favorite video game developers, SNK, is owned by someone that makes me physically ill, so won't be purchasing anything no matter how good the games are or how hard the non-affiliated team worked on them. I don't harbor any ill will over the hundreds of influences that are promoting and playing it though; I know they don't support this person in anyway, they just want to play their game and have fun.
 

I think it takes a deft hand and extra work to be explicitly political. Extra research into the backgrounds of everyone you review, the right choices about what is/isn't enough of a boundary. You're never going to please everyone, and if you've taken explicitly political stances before, than all of a sudden everything you touch has the assumption that you checked into them. And that you're monitoring all of the products you previously reviewed in case someone who seemed alright before turns out not to be.

If you get any of this wrong, you could lose a significant portion of your audience.

Maybe that is what one ought to do. But if a relatively small creator with a small business chooses not to I'm not going to hold it against them.
 

I think it takes a deft hand and extra work to be explicitly political. Extra research into the backgrounds of everyone you review, the right choices about what is/isn't enough of a boundary. You're never going to please everyone, and if you've taken explicitly political stances before, than all of a sudden everything you touch has the assumption that you checked into them. And that you're monitoring all of the products you previously reviewed in case someone who seemed alright before turns out not to be.

If you get any of this wrong, you could lose a significant portion of your audience.

Maybe that is what one ought to do. But if a relatively small creator with a small business chooses not to I'm not going to hold it against them.

I think a basic social media hot take, especially if they are in the same industry and circles as you are creating/publishing in, reveals alot and isn't too much trouble. Otherwise being apathetic can also loose you business and sales. For me as an African-American gamer... this is important, though I get why it's not as important for others... but then that's why I don't really play and am not really interested in any OSR games except Shadowdark. It's expecting me to navigate a minefield with a reputation for being overly filled with mines... in order to give you my money... Nah, I'm good and so are the people I game with.
 

One of my favorite video game developers, SNK, is owned by someone that makes me physically ill, so won't be purchasing anything no matter how good the games are or how hard the non-affiliated team worked on them.
That’s a name I’ve not heard in years. I loved SNK Baseball Stars and Crystalis is probably one of the best NES RPGs.

I thought they went bankrupt in like 2001? Was it the original Eikichi Kawasaki or someone else who is the issue? I only knew his name because he gave himself a cameo in the original Ikari Warriors as a boss and it was a trivia in an old Nintendo Power my friend had.
 

Every YouTube creator taking sponsorships or doing reviews has to deal with this to some extent or another. Some level of due diligence when someone is giving your money for a sponsorship is warranted, and clearly Milton is not unaware of the issues in the OSR community. To me, a statement of neutrality regarding politics in a community known for extreme voices is just not something I can get behind.
 

I think a basic social media hot take, especially if they are in the same industry and circles as you are creating/publishing in, reveals alot and isn't too much trouble. Otherwise being apathetic can also loose you business and sales. For me as an African-American gamer... this is important, though I get why it's not as important for others... but then that's why I don't really play and am not really interested in any OSR games except Shadowdark. It's expecting me to navigate a minefield with a reputation for being overly filled with mines... in order to give you my money... Nah, I'm good and so are the people I game with.
Every YouTube creator taking sponsorships or doing reviews has to deal with this to some extent or another. Some level of due diligence when someone is giving your money for a sponsorship is warranted, and clearly Milton is not unaware of the issues in the OSR community. To me, a statement of neutrality regarding politics in a community known for extreme voices is just not something I can get behind.
I think these are reasonable responses too, fwiw.
 

For what it’s worth, it’s the reason I’ve never felt comfortable associating myself with anything in the OSR broadly speaking, as it definitely had an undertone—to me at least, I’m not implying this is a general statement about anyone else—that it was fairly reactionary.

While I suppose it is objectively reactionary in a gaming sense—specifically to the release of 4E, it also seems to have appealed towards some who are reactionary in a broader sense. Now, whether that was intentional or not, seems irrelevant.
3E, for the record. When I first got into it 4E was new, but the scene had been around for several years. Dragonsfoot.org forum custom was to refer to 3E and 3.5 as TETSNBN (The Edition That Shall Not Be Named) and then 4E subsequently as YAETSNBN.

We know the scene first started getting talked about as a movement around 2004.

There was always a mix, though, of folks who really found WotC-era D&D distasteful/objectionable/an insult to Gary and Goodness, and folks who liked parts of it but just eventually decided they were more interested in and excited by the old school. Dan Collins of Delta's D&D Hotspot (one of the classic deep-dive OSR blogs since 2007) is a classic example of the latter. A Gen Xer who started with Holmes Basic, was a fanatical AD&Der who drifted away from D&D in the 90s, came back with 3E as a lot of folks did but eventually found it unsatisfying, and then that prompted him to dig back into the original stuff, especially OD&D. Which he found to be a revelation and to retroactively make sense of all sorts of parts of AD&D he had never quite grokked because Gary originally wrote expecting his audience for 1E to be familiar with OD&D.

The OSR started with a bunch of never-left-AD&D (or occasionally OD&D) players who converged online once WotC did away with TSR's hostile policy toward fan sites, then was reinforced with a wave of nostalgic players who had left D&D in the 80s or 90s (due to adult responsibilities or what have you) and been brought back to it with the 3E publicity but found (sooner or later) that 3E didn't scratch the itch. I think a big part of the core impetus for the Renaissance or Revival was figuring out WHY. Looking at the original texts and working out what about them made for a compelling game experience that was different from Trad play. And exercises like Philotomy's Musings deliberately saying "Hey, maybe the stuff like doors always being stuck for PCs but not for monsters, or monsters being able to see in the dark but not anymore if the PCs charm them, from the original rules, aren't DUMB design but are actually fun and interesting design? What if we just accept them and come up with rationales for them, like the Mythic Underworld concept?"

But similar to the original 1970s division of players as mostly coming from the Wargaming hobby or the Sci-Fi Fan hobby, these different groups had somewhat different perspectives and priorities and agendas of play.

Similar to how OD&D broke out and became a surprising success and phenomenon* once those two groups were both tapped (as opposed to just the original expected audience of wargamers who also enjoyed reading sci-fi and fantasy), I am inclined to think that the OSR became a thing once the never-left-AD&Ders and the returned-and-nostalgically-questing-for-their-childhood-enchantment populations converged in sufficient numbers.

(*and then became a larger pop culture fad after the Egbert case, starting in late '79).

What started, at least in my opinion, as a movement rejecting a trend in game mechanics and an embrace of legacy systems, has, for whatever reason, also attracted some who also reject the valid criticisms of many TTRPGs as having discriminatory concepts built-in to the games.
I think this is related to the mix of different populations above. I suspect the "never left AD&D" crowd has a higher percentage of older reactionaries who don't want to examine the subtext and/or found it insulting to them and to Gary's memory (despite Gary's notorious quotes here and elsewhere), like we saw with Ernie. And here we come to the BroSR, which seems to be younger than the original 1st/2nd wave AD&D holdouts, and is kind of reiterating/repeating some of the OSR mechanics/playstyle examination ("Hey, maybe 1 to 1 timekeeping like Gary talks about in AD&D as a technique to use with large play groups is actually AWESOME and a linchpin to cool campaigns!"), while also unfortunately buying into reactionary culture war nonsense in keeping with the contemporary manosphere.
 

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