D&D General [rant]The conservatism of D&D fans is exhausting.

[Micah Sweet]

You, of all people, are going to suggest that's always an easy solution for everyone when one game dominates the hobby as much as it is? Really?

Its not easy, and I wish we didn't have the dominance of WotC that we do. But we do and we have to work around it if we want something else. That's just life.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And again, semantically loaded. Which is usually the point in hyperbole.

Fair enough. I apologize if it's going to be a problem for people.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In some cases. But let's not act like one player has as much impact on the game or has as much ability to push back as the GM here.

Sure, but I still don't want to play or run a game with those constraints. So we're back to "I like this" vs "I don't like this".

 

[Campbell]

I do not think there's a mediocre referee problem. I think there's an undue burden because we put it on referees to align players' informal expectations into a cohesive game. That rather than seeking alignment of everyone's natural desires the easiest way to reach alignment at the table is for us all to adapt the aims we establish together. Just like when we play board games.

That when we align, either to a game concept we agree on as a group, or take on the concept of a designed game things go more smoothly because we are all rowing together and know what to expect of one another. Formal expectations as much about our fellow players as they are about the GM. To get what we need from the play experience we often need things from each other. There's no shame in admitting that.

These formal expectations need not come from game texts. My own group establishes these through active dialog as much as game texts. We also do custom design for our games to make sure that mechanics and practices form a cohesive whole.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Its not easy, and I wish we didn't have the dominance of WotC that we do. But we do and we have to work around it if we want something else. That's just life.

My point it, sometimes the solution to problems is not to go elsewhere but to fix the one you're with. There's nothing about "The only game I have access to is this game, and the GM is creative and well meaning but shows some bad judgment" that says the solution is not to address that.

 

[robertsconley]

You, of all people, are going to suggest that's always an easy solution for everyone when one game dominates the hobby as much as it is? Really?

With the internet and digital technology, it is a non-issue that one system dominates the hobby and industry. The only critical chokepoint at the moment is DriveThruRPG.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Fair enough. I apologize if it's going to be a problem for people.

I won't speak for others, but there's a reason I normally get right in there when I see hyperbole showing up; I've rarely seen it improve a conversation, even when not deployed in a deliberate attempt to put other people in a bad light.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Sure, but I still don't want to play or run a game with those constraints. So we're back to "I like this" vs "I don't like this".

That's your choice, but you don't have to imply or state that people who do are only doing so because they expect their GMs to be malignant. That's just playing the dozens on their position.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My point it, sometimes the solution to problems is not to go elsewhere but to fix the one you're with. There's nothing about "The only game I have access to is this game, and the GM is creative and well meaning but shows some bad judgment" that says the solution is not to address that.

What exactly do you mean by "fix"? What method are you suggesting should be used to fix it?

 

[mamba]

Certainly, it would take extensive effort on the DM's part to make me believe that any actual religion held such an utterly ridiculous, harmful belief. Making a person responsible for not just their own damnation, but their whole family's, from a single act, is so far beyond the pale...it's a bit hard to describe.

“Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation”