D&D (2024) Is it possible to balance the six abilities?

[Minigiant]

Attunement is necessary for game balance, especially to help balance casters and noncasters. To remove attunement to allow 'layering' spell effects breaks the game. 'Concentration' is narrative flavor for mathematically necessary constraint.

Well this all goes onto my unified Magic Power stat.

You can only Concentrate on Levels of Spells, Attune to Magic Items, and Resist Curses equal to your Magic Power.

Base Magic Power is Charisma Score/3.

 

[Yaarel]

Many of the Con saves that aren't spells would be Endurance checks

Drinking/Eating contests
Traveling long distance
Enduring extreme temperature
Long distance swimming and climb
Acting while in pain

Heck, with new Exhaustion, you can let people swap a unmodified Endurance check for a penalized check of another type

In my games, these checks virtually never happen. Even traveling long distance normally doesnt cause Exhaustion.

Climbing doesnt require Constitution, and any climbing challenges are an Athletics test.

If they ever did turn up, I would use Constitution (Athletics) to resolve them, and maybe even Wisdom (Medicine).

Mostly, a dedicated Endurance skill is worthless.

Besides, I prefer using different abilities for a same skill anyway.


Instead of trying to grid-fill for the abilities. Think about what kinds of d20 rolls actually do frequently happen during combat. Then rethink which ability they might suit better for the overall game.

 

[Yaarel]

Ok so then how do you make INT, WIS and CHA valuable on the battlefield?

I agree making Cha, Int, Wis, useful on a battlefield is "the" challenge for balancing the six abilities.

 

[Yaarel]

Well this all goes onto my unified Magic Power stat.

You can only Concentrate on Levels of Spells, Attune to Magic Items, and Resist Curses equal to your Magic Power.

Base Magic Power is Charisma Score/3.

Regarding a unified Magic Power stat, D&D traditions include the concept that Charisma means "innately magical" or "natural talent".

This is why, every caster class can normally rely on Charisma to determine the casting DC. Similarly, every martial class normally relies on Strength to wield a longsword.

But maybe Intelligence determines how many spells one can know, or the extent of its effects. Wisdom relates to maintaining a state of mind to focus magically.

I dont think we need a separate "Mana" ability. At times when an ability seems to make sense for "magical talent", Charisma can normally step in to represent this narrative.

 

[Minigiant]

I agree making Cha, Int, Wis, useful on a battlefield is "the" challenge for balancing the six abilities.

Making them useful is not the challenge.

Convincing other people that they're useful in battlefield is the challenge.

 

[Yaarel]

Making them useful is not the challenge.

Convincing other people that they're useful in battlefield is the challenge.

Combat is combat. If the mental abilities dont offer combat mechanics, then it would be more like a narrative social encounter.

For combat, how would a nonmagic Fighter benefit from Int, Wis, and Cha? The Perception and Sanity Save matter. Intimidation can end a combat early, by forcing surrender (after the Bloodied condition). Medicine is less worthwhile at high levels, but can help an ally at zero hit points. Sometimes knowledge skills are useful in combat, but this depends completely on the DM style.

What else can a mental ability offer a nonmagic Fighter for combat?

 

[Minigiant]

Combat is combat. If the mental abilities dont offer combat mechanics, then it would be more like a narrative social encounter.

For combat, how would a nonmagic Fighter benefit from Int, Wis, and Cha? The Perception and Sanity Save matter. Intimidation can end a combat early, by forcing surrender (after the Bloodied condition). Medicine is less worthwhile at high levels, but can help an ally at zero hit points. Sometimes knowledge skills are useful in combat, but this depends completely on the DM style.

What else can a mental ability offer a nonmagic Fighter for combat?

I mean its' not that you can't have mental abilitys factor in nonmagical combat.

It's that if you say a core base feature is "Add your Intelligence modifier to your damage roll" or "Make a ranged weapon attack with Wisdom", 10% of the fanbase will turn red while reading it.

 

[Yaarel]

I mean its' not that you can't have mental abilitys factor in nonmagical combat.

It's that if you say a core base feature is "Add your Intelligence modifier to your damage roll" or "Make a ranged weapon attack with Wisdom", 10% of the fanbase will turn red while reading it.

Fanbase approval sometimes depends how narratively sensible the mental-ability mechanic is.

Here is a mental-ability idea that can be useful for martials.

"Focus". Bonus action to make Wisdom check (typically versus DC 15) to Focus on a target. Concentration is necessary. The target of the focus can be a creature, object, or a task such as a Performance. All d20 tests relating to the target are at Advantage or impose Disadvantage to hostiles. However all other d20 tests are at Disadvantage or grant Advantage to hostiles.

Worry about balance later. For now the intent is to represent an Athlete in "the zone", or an absent minded professor focusing on a math problem while oblivious to surroundings. The combat application is probably balanced (need to confirm) since 5e 2024 makes Advantage more regular, and becoming more vulnerable to combat from beyond focus can be a serious risk, and meaningful tradeoff. Since Focus requires Concentration, mainly nonmagic characters benefit from it during combat, and suffering damage can disrupt Focus.

Note, giving Focus to Wisdom is for narrative reasons. At the same time, Wisdom loses Perception, and Intelligence becomes the ability for Perception and Initiative.

 

[NN]

I agree making Cha, Int, Wis, useful on a battlefield is "the" challenge for balancing the six abilities.

No the challenge is making other things as important as the battlefield

 

[Retros_x]

Sure, we've rolled for things for decades because D&D and nearly every other ttrpg have these numeric obstacles to negotiate in order to tell the PCs' story. IME that meta-game of "1d20 + Ability score + magic bonus + blahblahblah" not only isn't necessary, but it impairs the experience of playing the role of your character.

As I said ability scores and the math behind them are NOT necessarily, but some sort of resolution mechanic is needed. I find it silly to call that meta-game though, it is THE game. If its just "The player decides that their character that are only described in text form" then we are at the context border of what a game is and get closer to the territory of "lets just tell a story together". Which is fine if that is fun to you, but I am shy of generalized statements like "ability scores impair the experience of playing the role of your character."

Lets not forget that for many people mechanics are fun, limitations are fun too.