D&D (2024) Sage Advice Compendium Updated To 2024

The latest Sage Advice Compendium updates provide official rules clarifications for D&D 2024. Sage Advice is not errata, but acts more like a FAQ for common rules queries.

The Sage Advice Compendium collects questions and answers about rules interactions in Dungeons & Dragons. With the release of the new Core Rulebooks, Sage Advice has been updated to encompass the new material presented in these books. It will continue to be updated as more questions are brought up by the community.

 

[MerricB]

OK, I wasn't sure that was the final version. Thanks!

The final version probably ended up in the Essential books - the D&D Rules Compendium (2010), which seems to match the errata from what little I looked at.

Cheers!

 

[pukunui]

The final version probably ended up in the Essential books - the D&D Rules Compendium (2010), which seems to match the errata from what little I looked at.

Cheers!

Here's what's in the 4e Rules Compendium:

 

[doctorbadwolf]

They also rewrote the entire set of rules at one point. I've shared a screenshot in several recent threads ...

EDIT: Here we go! "Replace all text after the first paragraph ..."

Huh. That’s pretty much exactly how my group runs stealth in pretty much any d20 based game. Since before 4e came out, regardless of the actual rules.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If I’m hidden and a creature with Blindsight or Truesight sees me, am I still hidden?
No. Being hidden is a game state that gives you the Invisible condition. If a creature finds you, you’re no longer hidden and lose that condition, as explained in the Hide action (see appendix C of the Player’s Handbook).

Yet more circumstantial evidence that it is entirely RAI for you to remain invisible after taking the Hide action and leaving cover or obscuration.

I mean it makes sense. You stay hidden (by whatever Name) while you move, until you perform an action that reveals you, or some successfully searches for you, or whatever.

Truesight automatically detecting you only makes sense if Truesight sees through objects, which it doesn’t. Blindsight should see “around corners” so it makes sense that it reveals you.

The part that is abject nonsense is the fact that RAW, if one creature sees you you simply are not invisible anymore. To anyone. It’s both stupid and bad gameplay.

Right, but if it can't be dispelled it also isn't subject to an anti-magic field, or (more importantly because it is more common) magic resistance.

As it should be. Dragon breath weapons are magical in source, but you’re still getting hit by lightning or fire or acid or “cold”. It’s not created by a spell, it’s spat out of a body. Sprites don’t die in anti-magic fields either.

 

[pukunui]

Perhaps they should make an “Undetected” condition. Hiding makes you undetected and you stay undetected until someone detects you! And the Invisibility spell makes you unseen and that allows you to potentially be undetected without having to hide behind something first.

Also, I would prefer they go back to Blindsense rather than Blindsight because that’s a more accurate term (since Blindsight is a more about hearing / feeling / otherwise sensing someone rather than visually seeing them).

 

[Distracted DM]

Perhaps they should make an “Undetected” condition. Hiding makes you undetected and you stay undetected until someone detects you! And the Invisibility spell makes you unseen and that allows you to potentially be undetected without having to hide behind something first.

Agreed, but that'd probably require more of a change than the folks that make those decisions would be comfortable with.
Then again, with Crawford departing that means that the folk (sort of) taking over might be willing to make those changes to put their own spin on things.

 

[Charlaquin]

Which version is that? I don't think I have any errata to the 4e stealth rules, just the original.

This one:

Spoiler

Make a Stealth check to conceal yourself from enemies, slink past guards, slip away without being noticed, and sneak up on people without being seen or heard. This skill is used against another creature's passive Perception check or against a DC set by the DM.

• Stealth: The check is usually made at the end of a move action, but it can be at the end of any of the creature's actions that involve the creature moving.
  • Opposed Check: Stealth vs. passive Perception. If multiple enemies are present, your Stealth check is opposed by each enemy’s passive Perception check. If you move more than 2 squares during the move action, you take a −5 penalty to the Stealth check. If you run, the penalty is −10.
  • Becoming Hidden: You can make a Stealth check against an enemy only if you have superior cover or total concealment against the enemy or if you’re outside the enemy’s line of sight. Outside combat, the DM can allow you to make a Stealth check against distracted enemy, even if you don’t have superior cover or total concealment and aren’t outside the enemy’s line of sight. The distracted enemy might be focused on something in a different direction, allowing you to sneak up.
  • Success: You are hidden, which means you are silent and invisible to the enemy (see Concealment and Targeting What You Can’t See).
  • Failure: You can try again at the end of another move action.
  • Remaining Hidden: You remain hidden as long as you meet these requirements.
    • Keep Out of Sight: If you no longer have any cover or concealment against an enemy, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy. You don’t need superior cover, total concealment, or to stay outside line of sight, but you do need some degree of cover or concealment to remain hidden. You can’t use another creature as cover to remain hidden.
    • Keep Quiet: If you speak louder than a whisper or otherwise draw attention to yourself, you don’t remain hidden from any enemy that can hear you.
    • Keep Still: If you move more than 2 squares during an action, you must make a new Stealth check with a −5 penalty. If you run, the penalty is −10. If any enemy’s passive Perceptioncheck beats your check result, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy.
    • Don’t Attack: If you attack, you don’t remain hidden.
  • Not Remaining Hidden: If you take an action that causes you not to remain hidden, you retain the benefits of being hidden until you resolve the action. You can’t become hidden again as part of that same action.
  • Enemy Activity: An enemy can try to find you on its turn. If an enemy makes an active Perception check and beats your Stealth check result (don’t make a new check), you don’t remain hidden from that enemy. Also, if an enemy tries to enter your space, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy.

It is probably a little too complex to fit 5e’s design aesthetic, especially early 5e, but it serves as a solid starting point. In particular, I that it happens after you’ve moved with the results determining if you remained hidden during that movement, I like that it’s very clear about what degree of cover or concealment is needed both to attempt the check and to remain hidden, and that it explicitly allows you to retain the benefits of being hidden until you’ve fully resolved whatever action caused you to stop being hidden.

 

[Charlaquin]

I mean it makes sense. You stay hidden (by whatever Name) while you move, until you perform an action that reveals you, or some successfully searches for you, or whatever.

The problem is, “some action that reveals you” is not fully defined. I mean, we know that attacking, casting a spell with a verbal component, and making a sound louder than a whisper qualify as an action that reveals you. But we don’t know if that list is exhaustive. In particular, the text itself is quite ambiguous as to whether or not leaving the conditions needed to take the hide action would reveal you. It seems intuitive that it would, apart from the fact that the word “invisible” in common parlance would imply the opposite. And the clarifications the developers have given seem to me to suggest that their intent is that doing so would not actually reveal you.

 

[Charlaquin]

Perhaps they should make an “Undetected” condition. Hiding makes you undetected and you stay undetected until someone detects you! And the Invisibility spell makes you unseen and that allows you to potentially be undetected without having to hide behind something first.

Also, I would prefer they go back to Blindsense rather than Blindsight because that’s a more accurate term (since Blindsight is a more about hearing / feeling / otherwise sensing someone rather than visually seeing them).

I mean, it wasn’t defined as a condition, but this was basically how it worked prior to the 2024 revision. Being invisible made it so a creature was effectively blinded when attempting to target you - they had disadvantage on attack rolls and perception checks targeting you and you had advantage on attack rolls against them. But, being invisible did not, on its own, prevent a creature that couldn’t see you from knowing your location. It was, essentially, an “unseen” condition that did not inherently imply being “undetected.” Actually making a creature lose track of you required a successful Stealth check, which being unseen (either via magical invisibility or more mundane means such as cover or concealment) was a prerequisite to attempt. Granted, the text that collectively indicated this was scattered across about four different sections of the 2014 PHB. But, the rules were there. For some inscrutable reason, the architects of the 2024 rules decided that rather than simply cleaning up the presentation of these rules while leaving their functionality intact, what the game really needed was for the concept of being hidden to get completely subsumed by the invisible condition.

 

[Charlaquin]

Agreed, but that'd probably require more of a change than the folks that make those decisions would be comfortable with.

It wouldn’t have required a change at all, visibility and detection were treated separately by the 2014 rules. They actually had to make pretty significant changes to remove that distinction. Why on Earth they decided to do such a thing is a mystery for the ages.