What does it take for an RPG to die?

The first death is when the company ceases to publish the game (this happens a lot. And there are resurrections. Oh, so many resurrections).

The second death is when the last game of it is played, anywhere.

The third death is when its name is spoken for the last time, ever.
 

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So, how do you know a game is dead? You have no way of knowing that there are no solo gamers or isolated groups somewhere playing the game. You might have problems finding players for a particular game, but somewhere on a Pacific island or in Western Elbonia there might be a vibrant community. You just don't know. Proving the negative is, well, difficult.

To have meaningful discussion about the death of role-playing games, the criteria of death would have to be something people can agree on and that can be verified.

"That is not dead which can eternal lie"

I thought The Arcanum by Bard Games was dead. I bought the game sort of by accident in the 1980s and never saw anything relating to it anywhere. Then, another company bought the rights for the game and launched a successful Kickstarters a few years ago. Is this a case of resurrection or just hibernation? If a game blooms only once in, say, 17 years, we have no way of knowing if it is one or the other.

According to one definition, language is dead when it no longer has native speakers. "Once a language is no longer a native language—that is, if no children are being socialized into it as their primary language—the process of transmission is ended and the language itself will not survive past the current generations." [Wikipedia]

I would argue that MERP and Star Wars WEG are dead games: the publishers have ceased to exist and/or lost the license, and the current IP licensees do not have IP for the original games. As commercial products these games are dead. A dead commercial product is less likely to attract new gamers, and similarly to a language without native speakers, it is less likely to survive past the current generation of hobbyist. It is not impossible that somewhere down the line they are revived, but that means restoring to life something that was dead as a commercial product.

Obviously, there are games that are not commercial products. Some open licenses and some games have active communities around them. How much do these communities attract new hobbyists and will the communities survive past the current generation of participants, who knows?

The death of games is a slow process, and we don't quite have the perspective for the real Test of Time. Therefore, calling a game dead is typically a value statement rather than a statement of fact. As a slur, it is effective.
 

So, how do you know a game is dead? You have no way of knowing that there are no solo gamers or isolated groups somewhere playing the game. You might have problems finding players for a particular game, but somewhere on a Pacific island or in Western Elbonia there might be a vibrant community. You just don't know. Proving the negative is, well, difficult.

Does it matter if there is some unknown person on a Pacific Island out there playing? As a comparison, there are still companies out there that make buggy whips, and yet the general population correctly say the buggy whip industry is dead.
 

Does it matter if there is some unknown person on a Pacific Island out there playing? As a comparison, there are still companies out there that make buggy whips, and yet the general population correctly say the buggy whip industry is dead.
By the way, if anyone hasn't seen Danny DeVito's villain soliloquy from Other People's Money, do so. It's a work of art.
 

Does it matter if there is some unknown person on a Pacific Island out there playing? As a comparison, there are still companies out there that make buggy whips, and yet the general population correctly say the buggy whip industry is dead.

If you read the anecdotes and the counter-examples in this thread, it seems to matter. The idea seems to be that a game is not dead for as long as someone is playing it. Many criteria in the OP revolve around the personal experience which may, as we all know, vary a lot. My point was: those are not good criteria, because we don't know and we cannot know.

You have a good point, though. If you look RPGs as an industry, a game could be considered dead, if it was not a viable business, e.g., it would not provide full time employment for more than one or two or however many people. Outside of the few exceptions, RPGs are a cottage industry to begin with, so through the requirement of full time employment much of the scene would appear dead. Maybe it is, we just don't know it yet. Some of the ideas brewing in it will probably survive. It's like architectural styles.

As much as I love Rolemaster (I am planning to it probably next year) it might not survive the competition for the attention beyond the generation that was introduced to it in its heyday. It did well against its competition back then, but now there is at least 30 years of new ideas and games and other ways to spend time to compete with. As a business, it is certainly smaller than before going the way of the buggy whip. Some of the ideas that were pretty new at the time, like open ended rolls and detailed criticals, will probably survive in one form or another.
 

If you read the anecdotes and the counter-examples in this thread, it seems to matter. The idea seems to be that a game is not dead for as long as someone is playing it. Many criteria in the OP revolve around the personal experience which may, as we all know, vary a lot. My point was: those are not good criteria, because we don't know and we cannot know.

You have a good point, though. If you look RPGs as an industry, a game could be considered dead, if it was not a viable business, e.g., it would not provide full time employment for more than one or two or however many people. Outside of the few exceptions, RPGs are a cottage industry to begin with, so through the requirement of full time employment much of the scene would appear dead. Maybe it is, we just don't know it yet. Some of the ideas brewing in it will probably survive. It's like architectural styles.

As much as I love Rolemaster (I am planning to it probably next year) it might not survive the competition for the attention beyond the generation that was introduced to it in its heyday. It did well against its competition back then, but now there is at least 30 years of new ideas and games and other ways to spend time to compete with. As a business, it is certainly smaller than before going the way of the buggy whip. Some of the ideas that were pretty new at the time, like open ended rolls and detailed criticals, will probably survive in one form or another.

I've listened to Mike's podcast where he went through what his criteria was for a "dead" game, and I disagree at a certain point. I think from his perspective, it's important to point out that as long as a game is available, anyone can still play it and it plays just as well as any modern game that's out there. His greater point was part of a running theme for him: he's worried about the fragility of digital platforms and walled gardens and the freedom of physical products as well as digital products that you have local to your computer.

But while technically true, I find that not really practical as a definition. In another thread, I mentioned that I had never seen anyone play or express interest in the old TSR Buck Rogers game from the late 80s/early 90s. Given the print run, I have no doubt that the product is still out there. But I don't think n=1 players, or even 10, is a useful benchmark for whether it is played enough to say that the product isn't dead. It's dead - it's available but there's no observable interest in the game, and unless you decide to be that person to pick it up and run it, you're not likely to find someone running this game.
 

The first death is when the company ceases to publish the game (this happens a lot. And there are resurrections. Oh, so many resurrections).

The second death is when the last game of it is played, anywhere.

The third death is when its name is spoken for the last time, ever.

No, you put a stake in it's heart, fill the mouth with holy wafers, and then decapitate.
It's the only way to be sure.
 

No, you put a stake in it's heart, fill the mouth with holy wafers, and then decapitate.
It's the only way to be sure.
Evil Dead Ash GIF
 


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