OSR Let's make Shadowdark classes!

[Mannahnin]

In DCC the class is called warrior, so that's easy enough.

Likely keep all the basic stuff but drop the three features for mighty deeds. It's simple enough an idea, but not sure how it implement it. Maybe drop the deed die and just automatically gain some kind of rider like disarm, called shot, pin, etc. So on a hit you deal damage and inflict a rider. On a miss, nothing.

To lift some text: This Deed is a dramatic combat maneuver within the scope of the current combat. For example, a warrior may try to disarm an enemy with their next attack, or trip the opponent, or smash them backward to open access to a nearby corridor. The Deed does not increase damage but could have some other combat effect: pushing back an enemy, tripping or entangling, temporarily blinding, and so on.

That seems pretty solid. To capture the flavor/simulate the mechanics of the DCC Warrior I think you would want some random element determining whether you succeed in a Deed, though.

Maybe instead of the Deed die you bundle it into the attack roll (keeping the simplicity of SD being centered on d20-roll-high), and have a Deed succeed whenever you hit by at least, say, 4 above the required AC? Since SD characters do still advance in attack bonus, this would also allow for an increasing chance of Deeds being successful at higher level, as in DCC.

 

[Scribe]

That seems pretty solid. To capture the flavor/simulate the mechanics of the DCC Warrior I think you would want some random element determining whether you succeed in a Deed, though.

Maybe instead of the Deed die you bundle it into the attack roll (keeping the simplicity of SD being centered on d20-roll-high), and have a Deed succeed whenever you hit by at least, say, 4 above the required AC? Since SD characters do still advance in attack bonus, this would also allow for an increasing chance of Deeds being successful at higher level, as in DCC.

I really like that.

 

[Mannahnin]

I really like that.

IIRC -4 was the suggested Called Shot penalty in AD&D if you allowed them, so it's got resonance with a lot of older players.

Of course giving a -4 penalty to hit is a recipe for feel-bads, punishing players for trying to get creative, and incentivizing them to play conservative and just roll normal attacks. But if you give them the Deed/maneuver/Called Shot as a BONUS if they happen to roll extra-well...

One of my common house rules for B/X or OSE has been that anyone can do a special maneuver on a natural 20 to hit. Swiped that from James V. West's Black Pudding house rules, IIRC.

 

[overgeeked]

That seems pretty solid. To capture the flavor/simulate the mechanics of the DCC Warrior I think you would want some random element determining whether you succeed in a Deed, though.

For me the random element was the regular attack roll. I wouldn’t want to add the extra step to resolve unless it’s purely a player-side mechanic, similar to rolling a 3+ on the deed die in DCC RPG.

 

[Mannahnin]

For me the random element was the regular attack roll. I wouldn’t want to add the extra step to resolve unless it’s purely a player-side mechanic, similar to rolling a 3+ on the deed die in DCC RPG.

Right. That's why I just bundled it into the single attack roll.

 

[overgeeked]

Right. That's why I just bundled it into the single attack roll.

You have the extra step of having to confirm the AC+4 thing with the referee. For something that’s potentially happening every round, that will add up.

The higher TN also means there are some monsters you just can’t perform deeds on when attacking. Which goes against the original intent. Unless you add in a caveat about always doing a deed on a crit.

Much simpler to tie it to just hitting normally.

 

[Mannahnin]

You have the extra step of having to confirm the AC+4 thing with the referee. For something that’s potentially happening every round, that will add up.

The higher TN also means there are some monsters you just can’t perform deeds on when attacking. Which goes against the original intent. Unless you add in a caveat about always doing a deed on a crit.

Much simpler to tie it to just hitting normally.

And make it guaranteed every time you hit? Seems opposed to the spirit of the class and how Deeds work in DCC.

Checking with the referee is not much of a step. It ceases to be a step at all once you figure out the monster's AC, which a lot of OSR DMs are open about in the first place.

Certainly it's harder to do against monsters with higher AC, but isn't that also true in DCC? That you have to roll 3+ on the deed die AND score a successful hit?

I took a peek in the SD quick-start, and it looks like there are only two monsters in there with a 16 AC and one with a 17. So assuming you have at least a 12 on your attack attribute, even at first level you can (though the odds are long) succeed on a Deed against any monster* in the quick start. And it looks like most monsters are more in the 12-14 range, which gives you better than the odds a low level Warrior has in DCC. You could also easily add a caveat that you always get your deed on a nat 20. That's simple.

(*Edit: Missed the Stone Golem having an 18 AC.).

 

[TwoSix]

You have the extra step of having to confirm the AC+4 thing with the referee. For something that’s potentially happening every round, that will add up.

The higher TN also means there are some monsters you just can’t perform deeds on when attacking. Which goes against the original intent. Unless you add in a caveat about always doing a deed on a crit.

Much simpler to tie it to just hitting normally.

If I recall correctly, deeds were pretty common for DCC Fighters; you start out with a 1/3 chance of a deed if you hit, and it goes up to 2/3 (I think, can't remember if the deed die goes up to d6 or something higher).

Maybe tie it to the die roll, such that any even roll that's a hit is a deed?

 

[overgeeked]

If I recall correctly, deeds were pretty common for DCC Fighters; you start out with a 1/3 chance of a deed if you hit, and it goes up to 2/3 (I think, can't remember if the deed die goes up to d6 or something higher).

Maybe tie it to the die roll, such that any even roll that's a hit is a deed?

Yeah, they’re crazy common. There’s no downside to trying them every single attack. They don’t always work, as said, you have to hit and roll a 3+ on the deed die. The deed die starts at 1d3 at 1st and moves up the DCC RPG dice chain with each level. 1d4 at 2nd, 1d5, 1d6, 1d7, 1d8, and to 1d10+1 at 7th. You get bigger bonuses from 8th to 10th. But you will always succeed on the deed if the die rolls a 3+. So you'd get 33% at 1st, 50% at 2nd, etc on up to 80% by 7th level. The result of the deed die is also your to-hit and damage bonus. And you get multiple attacks a round at higher levels, so it compounds.

I'm not really interested in trying to mirror that math. Or deeds exactly. Just the gist of the idea. Lots and lots of maneuvers. But it would be kinda lame for it to be always stuck at 50% of hits. Also, given that deeds would be the only feature of the class, I skipped ahead to just all hits.