D&D 5E To Be or Not to Be: Legendary

[Stalker0]

Sorry: "hitbox" meaning "mythical trait" / "final boss" / once you kill it, it gets back up with a new set of HP and loses all conditions and recharges its stuff. I don't know if we have a standard word for that idea yet. I think I like "mythical trait" best so far.

Or the "hitbox" idea that Reynard had where each area of the monster has its own HP/condition/etc., and taking down each part makes it weaker.

If we are discussing that latest thread about hitboxes, one key difference between the idea and this mythic concept is the idea that a hitbox is "binary" in round terms. A hitbox can either be checked because enough damage was done, or remain unchecked (meaning the damage dealt does nothing). Further, a single hitbox can only be checked once per round, so if a monster has 3 hitboxes it cannot be killed faster than 3 rounds.

Mythic does provide a fresh set of hitpoints after a nova attack (so can allow for nova damage to be wasted) and removes conditions, so its midway there, but its not quite a protecting as that full hitbox concept. You could argue that the hitbox idea is the more ideal in terms of truly ensuring a high level monster sticks around long enough to deliver threat...but its also a lot more gamist of a concept.

 

[Reynard]

You could argue that the hitbox idea is the more ideal in terms of truly ensuring a high level monster sticks around long enough to deliver threat...but its also a lot more gamist of a concept.

Yup. the whole goal was to make those fights fun. Purely gamist.

 

[dave2008]

You could argue that the hitbox idea is the more ideal in terms of truly ensuring a high level monster sticks around long enough to deliver threat...but its also a lot more gamist of a concept.

Yup. the whole goal was to make those fights fun. Purely gamist.

Yep, to gamist for my designer / DM taste, fine if I was a player though.

 

[Stalker0]

Yep, to gamist for my designer / DM taste, fine if I was a player though.

I think the idea works with a certain design of monster where you can flavor it into the monster design so its not so gamist. I will give a quick example.

The 3 Eyed terror of Gormash

The Eye Evil: At the start of its turn, Gormash closes its currently open eye, and then opens a different eye. Each eye has a different effect (see effects).

An eye has X hp.

Invulnerable Body: Gormashs body and its eyes when they are close are immune from all damage. Gormash loses this invulnerability if all 3 eyes are destroyed.

Regeneration: At the start of its turn, any eye that is closed and not destroyed is healed to its full hp.


So there is one quick model. The eyes in this case are the hitboxes, and we use a form of super regeneration to mimic the concept that a hitbox is binary....its not that the player's damage is "ignored", its just healed up unless the eye is actually destroyed.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

@dave2008, didn't you used to have a variant of LR, where the monster takes damage when it negates a condition? Something like CR+2 hp damage, 3/long rest, the monster ends a condition affecting it? Or it makes the save automatically, but takes that damage, making it a cost/benefit analysis for the monster.
I'm pretty sure it came from you (or a contributor to one of your monster threads). I've used it in my own monster design to great effect.
I think it could be added to the non legendary and/or the mythic, without affecting CR.

 

[dave2008]

@dave2008, didn't you used to have a variant of LR, where the monster takes damage when it negates a condition? Something like CR+2 hp damage, 3/long rest, the monster ends a condition affecting it? Or it makes the save automatically, but takes that damage, making it a cost/benefit analysis for the monster.
I'm pretty sure it came from you (or a contributor to one of your monster threads). I've used it in my own monster design to great effect.
I think it could be added to the non legendary and/or the mythic, without affecting CR.

Yep, that is another tool in the tool box. I just prefer methods that don't spend HP myself, so I stopped using that mechanic. Instead I have the cost being on the DPR side instead of the HP side. There isn't really much difference in the idea: recover or prevent damage at a cost. Heck that is what legendary resistance is doing too, it is just behind the curtain (they have already subtracted the cost).

 

[evilbob]

I like it specifically for Tiamat, where each dragon head has its own hitbox.

 

[dave2008]

I like it specifically for Tiamat, where each dragon head has its own hitbox.

In my forthcoming love letter to Tiamat (64 page PDF), my initial pass had her broken down into 7 stat blocks: 5 heads, body, tail. I have moved away from that (switched her statblock to my deity rules and made her 3 statblocks), but it is a decent idea. It harkens back to the OG 1e MM.

 

[dave2008]

Ok, @evilbob, @Stalker0, @Reynard, and @Matrix Sorcica here is a revised take that leans into Legendary style actions, removing no legendary actions from the design. I tried this out in some deity (avatar) statblocks a while back and then stopped using it. I think it is time to bring it back!

 

[Reynard]

Ok, @evilbob, @Stalker0, @Reynard, and @Matrix Sorcica here is a revised take that leans into Legendary style actions, removing no legendary actions from the design. I tried this out in some deity (avatar) statblocks a while back and then stopped using it. I think it is time to bring it back!

View attachment 405043

I like it a lot. The "legendary actions only" thing is something I had thought about instead of the "monster with 3 initiative rolls" and it feels like it would work pretty well. I think I will design my party's tier 1 big bad -- a super worg -- to use that method just to see how it goes.