Daggerheart General Thread [+]

[Ruin Explorer]

Same realm as in “game built to facilitate CR style play and stories that’s explicitly not D&D.” That’s been a big part of the vision for DW2, and obviously is the core goal of DH. DW2 is trying to reinvent the PBTA to facilitate heroic fantasy tropes and narratives as the core (they literally called CR out as a primary lodestone in an early blog); DH is doing the same thing but expecting GM story steering and plotting in a way that’s a sharp divergence.

And a result DH will be a lot more successful even if we took out the CR popularity edge. Even as someone who has played a lot of PtbA games I'm finding the current DW2 to be a weird combination of the the clunky and the opaque. I can't see the slightest hint of CR's style of play in there.

DH isn’t playing to find out; and in fact is doing a lot of gameplay stuff DW doesn’t want you to do, even if GMs often drifted it that way.

I don't think that really detracts, because DW in fact want you play in a DH-like way, but then in thrall to PtbA doctrine just suggested moving away from it!

I think DH is a far more intentional and focused design

Yes and less doctrinal!

 

[zakael19]

And a result DH will be a lot more successful even if we took out the CR popularity edge. Even as someone who has played a lot of PtbA games I'm finding the current DW2 to be a weird combination of the the clunky and the opaque. I can't see the slightest hint of CR's style of play in there.

I don't think that really detracts, because DW in fact want you play in a DH-like way, but then in thrall to PtbA doctrine just suggested moving away from it!

Yes and less doctrinal!

I'm not going to argue DW design stuff in a DH + thread, but I concur that DH is so far doing the Critical Role play ethos better from a design perspective then what I see of DW2, and I'm really looking forward to bringing it to the table.

I've already seen quite a few people looking to put games together in the very large local TTRPG discord, which is otherwise ~ 90% 5e.

 

[aramis erak]

I'm not sure I understand the problem. Wherever you'd play any RPG would work just as well for Daggerheart.

There are concerns with using the cards, I'm sure.
Likewise, automating the dice outcomes.
Some can't do those.

It's not like the cards are a huge problem; the card format isn't essential. And the full text is in the book.

Automating the 2d12 Disparity Dice is more of an issue. ALmost all can handle 2d12... but some of the free ones don't let you have different colors per player, and don't have the ability to do comparisons of the two dice. One I tried years ago didn't show you the dice, let alone in order rolled, instead just the total of the roll.

I like the DD, so I'm planning on implementing it into my Discord die-roller... but I'm nearly at the limit of my ability to refactor my own code.

 

[zakael19]

There are concerns with using the cards, I'm sure.
Likewise, automating the dice outcomes.
Some can't do those.

It's not like the cards are a huge problem; the card format isn't essential. And the full text is in the book.

Automating the 2d12 Disparity Dice is more of an issue. ALmost all can handle 2d12... but some of the free ones don't let you have different colors per player, and don't have the ability to do comparisons of the two dice. One I tried years ago didn't show you the dice, let alone in order rolled, instead just the total of the roll.

I like the DD, so I'm planning on implementing it into my Discord die-roller... but I'm nearly at the limit of my ability to refactor my own code.

Given the relatively small amount of math required on top of the duality dice, is there a reason why you wouldn't just have people roll physical dice? I can see wanting to do damage calcs via computer math since those can get pretty big.

Also, that freshcutgrass app I linked has player dice rolling with the ability to link character sheets from what I imagine is Demiplane if that helps at all. At least for the encounter portions?

 

[aramis erak]

Given the relatively small amount of math required on top of the duality dice, is there a reason why you wouldn't just have people roll physical dice? I can see wanting to do damage calcs via computer math since those can get pretty big.

I never use physical dice online. ALL rolls are in view of the group. It's a matter of fairness and trust.
I've known way too many who will cheat on dice rolls if their dice are not visible to others, so I never trust any rolls I cannot see.
More importantly, I've had too many players get upset that a different player is cheating. By makin it a flat requirement to use the roller, no one else worries about the dice cheating temptations either.

 

[zakael19]

I never use physical dice online. ALL rolls are in view of the group. It's a matter of fairness and trust.
I've known way too many who will cheat on dice rolls if their dice are not visible to others, so I never trust any rolls I cannot see.
More importantly, I've had too many players get upset that a different player is cheating. By makin it a flat requirement to use the roller, no one else worries about the dice cheating temptations either.

Gotcha, I guess I've been on the lucky side & also have been running games with players where complication and "failures" are desired and exciting.

Hopefully one of the big online spots adds robust DH support for you then, or you can check out that app and see if it'll suffice since it does open rolling for all players at least during encounters; and maybe it'll spill through for action roll as well?

 

[aramis erak]

Gotcha, I guess I've been on the lucky side & also have been running games with players where complication and "failures" are desired and exciting.

Hopefully one of the big online spots adds robust DH support for you then, or you can check out that app and see if it'll suffice since it does open rolling for all players at least during encounters; and maybe it'll spill through for action roll as well?

I've written my own discord die-roller, so when I get closer to running, I can refactor the code a bit... and include a DD implementation giving the hope/fear and advantage/disadvantage handling.

 

[Faolyn]

; the card format isn't essential. And the full text is in the book.

The one problem I can see with not using the cards is the loadout/vault issue. If I ever get a chance to play it (I have a sneaking suspicion I’d end up running it instead), I’d keep the text of the cards on a word document and change the font color or move around blocks of text to indicate what’s in my hand at the moment and what isn’t. But my group plays online via discord, so I don’t know how useful that would be to people who play in person.

Automating the 2d12 Disparity Dice is more of an issue. ALmost all can handle 2d12... but some of the free ones don't let you have different colors per player, and don't have the ability to do comparisons of the two dice. One I tried years ago didn't show you the dice, let alone in order rolled, instead just the total of the roll.

I guess just roll 1d12 twice and sat the first roll is always either hope or fear.

 

[overgeeked]

Wow. It's really climbing on Amazon. Some online sales estimators put that #75 across all books at around 12,000 copies sold. Just on Amazon.

 

[overgeeked]

The one problem I can see with not using the cards is the loadout/vault issue. If I ever get a chance to play it (I have a sneaking suspicion I’d end up running it instead), I’d keep the text of the cards on a word document and change the font color or move around blocks of text to indicate what’s in my hand at the moment and what isn’t. But my group plays online via discord, so I don’t know how useful that would be to people who play in person.

It's not really any different than a wizard in 5E. You have a spell list (all possible wizard spells) and spells known (the ones in your spell book) and spells prepared (one's you can use today). It's no more complicated than that. In fact, it's far easier than that because your total number of spells/cards is dramatically lower than even half-casters in 5E.

I guess just roll 1d12 twice and sat the first roll is always either hope or fear.

Yeah, simple enough. I think a lot of people are getting hung up on the lack of full automation on day one and making it into a much bigger problem than it actually is.